On this week’s show, The YP’s Stuart Rayner and Leon Wobschall join host Mark Singleton to reflect on the latest few days of the Yorkshire football scene.
They start in the Championship and Huddersfield Town where, soon after Andrew Breitenreiter’s passing through the exit door following the Terriers’ relegation to League One, former Barnsley boss Michael Duff was heading in the other way to replace him.
They also consider the positives Sheffield United can take into the summer and the big job that lies ahead for boss Chris Wilder following an extremely tough Premier League campaign which – some time ago – resulted in their instant return to The Championship.
Ahead of Thursday night’s Championship play-off semi-final second leg at Elland Road between Leeds United and Norwich City, our panel look at the Whites’ chances of making it through to Wembley.
Lastly, we salute the remarkable run to the League Two play-offs made by Doncaster Rovers before their promotion hopes were dashed when losing their semi-final encounter against Crewe Alexandra on a penalty shoot-out.
They start in the Championship and Huddersfield Town where, soon after Andrew Breitenreiter’s passing through the exit door following the Terriers’ relegation to League One, former Barnsley boss Michael Duff was heading in the other way to replace him.
They also consider the positives Sheffield United can take into the summer and the big job that lies ahead for boss Chris Wilder following an extremely tough Premier League campaign which – some time ago – resulted in their instant return to The Championship.
Ahead of Thursday night’s Championship play-off semi-final second leg at Elland Road between Leeds United and Norwich City, our panel look at the Whites’ chances of making it through to Wembley.
Lastly, we salute the remarkable run to the League Two play-offs made by Doncaster Rovers before their promotion hopes were dashed when losing their semi-final encounter against Crewe Alexandra on a penalty shoot-out.
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SportsTranscript
00:00 Hello and welcome to the latest edition of Football Talk from the Yorkshire Post, where
00:15 we will be discussing some of the latest talking points from the world of football with members
00:18 of our football writing team. On this week's episode, we are joined by Chief Football Writer
00:21 for the Yorkshire Post, Stuart Rayner, and Football Writer for the Yorkshire Post, Leon
00:25 Walshall, to discuss all of the latest developments affecting our local clubs. Don't forget,
00:29 you can keep up to date with all the football news across Yorkshire and beyond by logging
00:33 onto our website at yp.sport@nationalworld.com, as well as checking out our various Twitter
00:38 feeds, the main one being @ypsport. If you search for Yorkshire Post Sport, Yorkshire
00:44 Post Football, or even Sheffield Sport on Facebook, you can find us there as well. And
00:48 if you have any questions for our writers, you can get in touch using those various Twitter
00:51 or Facebook pages, or email us directly with a subject matter as Football Talk Podcast
00:56 at yp.sport@nationalworld.com. YorkshirePost.co.uk.
01:02 As mentioned earlier in the intro, this week we're joined by Chief Football Writer for
01:05 the Yorkshire Post, Stuart Rayner, and Football Writer for the Yorkshire Post, Leon Walshall.
01:09 Good morning, guys.
01:10 Morning.
01:11 Morning.
01:12 Right, this week, the League One and Two playoffs continued, and we saw the start of the Championship
01:16 playoffs with Leeds United hoping to gain promotion through this route. However, let's
01:22 start with Huddersfield Town, who announced the departure of Andre Breitenreiter following
01:26 the club's relegation. This was then swiftly followed by the news that ex-Barnsley manager
01:31 Michael Duff had been appointed as his successor. Now, what did you make of Breitenreiter's
01:37 relatively short time at the club, and how crucial will it be for the club to ensure
01:42 that Michael Duff can get going as soon as possible, Leon?
01:45 Yeah, I mean, I think when you look back at Breitenreiter's time in charge, I liked him.
01:52 I thought he was a capable manager. He was only there for 13 games, two wins, but I think
01:59 when you look back and the dust has settled, the biggest service that he will have given
02:04 Huddersfield is probably by what he said in the final few press conferences and post-match
02:12 press conferences as well. He really did call out, without going into specific names, I
02:21 think quite a few Huddersfield fans were capable of dotting the i's and crossing the t's.
02:26 Yeah, just calling out a lot of players for their attitudes. He said a lot of very candid
02:33 and revealing things. He said that he's not seen anything like it in terms of behaviour
02:41 and day-to-day conduct at times that he'd not seen in 30 years in the game. That's a
02:45 big statement, isn't it? I admired him for his candour. The stewards obviously supported
02:53 him a few times as well. I think he was straightforward. He wasn't used to the lack of general professionalism
03:01 that he was used to at his clubs, especially in Germany. But yeah, I think the main thing
03:06 he will be remembered for were those comments ultimately. The baton has been passed on to
03:14 Michael Duff. I think it's a very sensible and shrewd appointment of the decision-making
03:22 of the new look board hierarchy at Huddersfield. It's not too far away from it. Years have
03:29 been in charge. It's fair to say it's been questionable but this one, it has the man
03:36 we'll have to see yet, but it has the man who's been the shrewdest yet. Duff knows the
03:40 club. He knows Mark Cartwright very well. They were known to each other from being involved
03:49 in the same agency. So Duff won't be going in blind. He's someone who's been considered
03:56 before by the Huddersfield board. I think there's almost a feeling really that it's
04:01 almost... I wish they could have done this maybe this time, well, not this time, last
04:07 year because he was still involved in the play-offs, but in the close season of 2023
04:12 that would have been probably a better time as far as Huddersfield are concerned. Obviously
04:18 the manager has to stick with Neil Warnock and then things quickly unravelled. There's
04:23 a lot of talk about the pre-season, this, that and other as well. He started off the
04:26 chain of events that's ended in relegation. So yeah, just glad from a Huddersfield perspective
04:32 that Duff's in place. It might be a little bit a year too late. He's had his spell at
04:38 Swansea which I always thought it was a little bit of a strange one in the respect that there's
04:45 all the talk about the Swansea way of playing heavily possession-based and it just didn't
04:49 look a natural fit. Whereas I think with Huddersfield with the sort of pressing elements that Duff
04:57 has been successful with in Barnsley, that sort of way of playing suits, it will suit
05:04 Huddersfield as a natural fit. So that ticks a box. And it's very similar, I mean I wrote
05:09 a comment piece for the paper on Wednesday, there's a lot of correlations between when
05:15 he walked into Barnsley and obviously coming into Huddersfield, it's a club that have had
05:21 a desperately poor season, morale's pretty low, the club's at a low ebb and he'll be
05:27 greeted with a similar sketch, there'll be quite a few players who will want to wait.
05:30 It was the same when Barnsley went down, there was a summer where Corley Woodrow left, there
05:35 was Callum Britton, there were quite a few others as well. Mikkel Hellick, who could
05:40 be one of the players that he inherits. So it wasn't a straightforward summer. So I think
05:48 the fact that Duff has been here before, he'll spot the signs, he spoke when he came in at
05:54 the bar, he's been on high alert. The first thing he's going to do is look at players,
05:58 look at the body language in pre-season, really see who wants to be here, who doesn't. And
06:05 I think he'll be prepared for whatever happens. But I think the top and bottom of it is that
06:11 it's a pretty good appointment, he knows the level, he's a good builder of cultures, he's
06:18 a good guy and I'm sure his comments will chime with Huddersfield supporters. He talks
06:24 straightforward language that a lot of supporters in these parts will take to straight away.
06:32 So yeah, I'm pleased with Huddersfield, no messing about really, obviously they got the
06:36 decision about Brian Wright, they were fairly clear that Nagle would have liked to have
06:41 kept him but they always had the contingency plan in reserve of Duff, they've done it really
06:47 quickly. He went in at Barnsley in mid-June, he was racing against the clock a little bit
06:52 and he still managed to get them into shape. Now he's got the extra time at Huddersfield,
06:57 he comes in mid-May, he can get his feet under the table and do his research, really get
07:06 things ready for pre-season. Huddersfield needed to do something positive in the aftermath
07:13 of an awful rotten season and fair play to them that.
07:18 Positive and quick as you've both alluded to, it was really important that he was able
07:24 to hit the ground running and in before even the retainer list is sorted out, it's such
07:29 a big help. We saw how Leeds last season were waiting on the takeover before Daniel Farker
07:35 came in, how other clubs, Sheffield Wednesday were obviously set back by Darren Moore leaving
07:42 when he did. It's a big help and I totally agree with Leon, I think it's a really shrewd
07:48 appointment. I think when you're a club of Huddersfield's standing, a club that's been
07:55 in the Premier League fairly recently, a club that's got a very proud history, albeit those
08:00 league titles were in the distant past. I think the real issue with League One, probably
08:06 more than any of the other leagues in the system, is to respect the division. I think
08:12 you've really got to go in and you've got to accept that you're a League One club for
08:17 a reason, you've got to act like a League One club. I think sometimes too many of these
08:22 big clubs, we've seen it with Leeds, we've seen it with both Sheffield clubs, lots of
08:29 big clubs have got tangled in that division. I think by looking too far ahead too soon,
08:36 trying to act like championship clubs before they're championship clubs. I think it was
08:40 really important that Huddersfield got someone who knew League One. For all Brighton Riders'
08:46 qualities, he clearly got a great CV in Germany, he didn't know that division, he clearly didn't
08:52 regard himself quite rightly with his background as a third-tier manager. It was never likely
09:00 to work, no matter the goodwill on either side. I think it's for the best that he's
09:05 come to a quick decision, everybody's been able to move on. As Leal says, he's got all
09:12 the qualities he needs for the division. It cost him at Swansea but there's no high-minded
09:17 ideas about trying to play over pretty football. He doesn't play ugly football either, don't
09:23 get me wrong, but it's just what's needed for the level. There's no getting ahead of
09:29 himself, there's a real honesty. As Leal says, they need to sift through pretty quickly and
09:36 work out those players who think they're too big for League One as well and get them out
09:40 the door. I'm sure that'll be a fairly quick process because they'll want to make themselves
09:45 known and moved on. I think it's a really good appointment. I think he's a really good
09:52 fit for the area. As Leal says, the common sense approach, it fits in with how we see
10:00 ourselves as Yorkshiremen and how we like our football clubs to be run. Obviously, he
10:06 grew up in B-Del so we've obviously had a bit of an impact on him. There's just a straightforwardness
10:14 about him and there's an understanding of what's needed. There'll be no heirs and graces
10:20 trying to be this or that. He'll just get his head down and get them out of the division.
10:26 That's a challenge that Birmingham City, for example, will have to get their head around
10:31 and it might be that Huddersfield can steal a march on them and some of the other big
10:35 clubs by just acting like a League One club, signing players who know the division, who
10:42 know the football that needs to be played and getting out of there as soon as possible.
10:47 I know for a fact that Rotherham will be operating on those lines. They're not a club with Steve
10:53 Evans in charge that you worry about them in that respect. That's already one big promotion
10:58 rival plus you've got the teams who have gone close, including Barnsley, depending on who
11:04 they get in. It's important that Huddersfield do hit the ground running and that they don't
11:10 have somebody with the outplayed.
11:12 They've both been pretty quick, haven't they? Rotherham are a different one. They've totally
11:18 identified Steve Evans very quickly and that looks a natural fit there. It's the same with
11:25 Huddersfield. You look at Michael Duff in the last few years, he was only at Barnsley
11:31 for a season and obviously a short spell at Swansea that didn't work out. But if you look
11:37 at his overall career in terms of playing as well, he's been very loyal and stuck around
11:45 for the long haul. He's playing career with the likes of Burnley and managing Cheltenham
11:52 as well. I think it's one of those, if everything's in place and things are growing, it's the
11:57 manager who will stick around in the medium to long term. I think the frustrations at
12:02 Barnsley were he did an excellent job in the year he was there but I just think that behind
12:06 the scenes there wasn't the structure maybe that he'd expected and wanted. Ironically
12:16 now they've made some appointments earlier this year in the back room at Barnsley structurally
12:21 that maybe it's a bit more sound than it was. But you felt that he was craving that sort
12:28 of sense of order behind the scenes and he will have that at Huddersfield. It's a decent
12:34 structure. He's someone who strikes me, if everything's in place, he's a builder of clubs.
12:42 Obviously the first aim is to hopefully get Huddersfield out of the division the first
12:46 time I've asked him. But he just looks a natural fit and for his sake he'll have some of the
12:54 advantages that maybe he didn't have at Barnsley and what were fairly big in him deciding that
13:03 he wanted to go away at the end of that season when then Swansea came calling. So I just
13:08 think it's a very shrewd appointment by Huddersfield and it's very timely as well and it's exactly
13:15 what was needed.
13:16 It immediately makes Huddersfield a lot more serious contenders to bounce back next season
13:22 I would say.
13:23 I think his background at Cheltenham as well, he's somebody who won Barnsley but he won't
13:30 disrespect the division. He's been at Cheltenham and had it all on to get promoted from League
13:35 2 to League 1 so he'll know every nook and cranny about the division and he will not
13:41 get carried away with anything like that. He's just not in his DNA anyway as a person. So
13:46 I think that Huddersfield fans can, at the end of a really tough season, they've got
13:52 something to look forward to and cling to.
13:56 Next we turn to the Premier League where we saw Sheffield United fall to a narrow 1-0
14:00 defeat. Unfortunately in the process they claimed an unwanted Premier League record
14:05 by conceding over 100 goals during the course of a single season. However in your report
14:10 of the game Leon, you stated that the Blades showed heart during this game. What was the
14:14 rest of your assessment of the game?
14:16 Yeah, I mean Stewart's seen a lot more of Sheffield United than I have probably. Unfortunately
14:21 is probably the word isn't it? I've seen the odd beating up but Stewart's seen a fair
14:27 few more. But yeah I think it looked to me as if it was a bit of a, almost a bit of elements
14:34 of the season. In a nutshell there was heart and they had a go and the spirit was there
14:40 but Chris Wilder's said it quite a lot hasn't he? They're non-negotiables really in any
14:44 side that he manages. He expects that, not just from his own side either, from any professional
14:48 footballer you've got to do that. I watched them, especially going forward, they had a
14:55 lot of the ball in the second half. Everton seemed to me just to sort of clock off a little
15:00 bit and they got in front and they probably thought to themselves well we can control
15:04 the game from here. Yeah they huffed and they puffed but they just lacked that decision
15:10 making, that final cross, that guile, call it what you will. You sort of look at that
15:17 side now and you look at them for next season, I mean they'll be, Brayton Diaz probably won't
15:22 be there, Archer will go back to Villa, people like Olly McBurney, first level, who's going
15:27 to score the goal for them next season? And I sort of looked at the side, they've got
15:30 a few players who hopefully they can build it around next season, the Arblasters of this
15:34 world, hopefully Bogle, a few others. I just sort of watched them and fair play to the
15:40 Sheffield United supporters as well, they were with them all game, they were singing
15:44 positively all game and it's a tribute to them because they've had a desperately poor
15:51 season. It just sort of showed to me how much they've got to do. In the summer really there's
15:58 going to be a big turnaround, a big reset, by the time we've come out there might be
16:04 more details about the retain list but I think it's fair to say that quite a few of the promotion
16:11 heroes if you like of previous successful campaigns, this seems a natural break for
16:16 them and a time to change it around. Just so much work to do in the summer, there's
16:20 not going to be a lot of money to work with by the sound of it and one or two of the bigger
16:27 name players could maybe depart as well. So I just thought to myself how much work Chris
16:33 Wilder's got to do. Can he get it all done in one window? I think that's pretty doubtful
16:39 but he's going to have to do something to get them ship shape and compete in next season.
16:44 There's still got a lot of that, there'll be a fairly big club in at the Championship
16:50 level Sheffield United, they'll still have some decent players but it's going to be a
16:55 big turnover. Wilder spoke about before in his press conference about they may be trying
17:03 to go for some sort of Premier loan players if you like but I look at that and I think
17:08 there'll be a lot of clubs in for them as well. You're going to have to get your pitch
17:12 right and keep your fingers crossed because I think the players they're targeting, there'll
17:17 be a lot of other clubs, maybe clubs that have come down and clubs that are pushing
17:20 at the top end of the Championship that they're going to go for. It was a spirited, hearty
17:25 performance and they were fairly well organised on the day but I think the main takeaway from
17:32 that was still thinking how much work's got to be done next season, giving in mind that
17:38 the side that steps out on the opening day is going to be pretty different to the one
17:42 that lined up at Gullison Park.
17:44 I think they're paying the price really of kicking the can down the road the last couple
17:48 of years. This change should have been made more gradually over that time but because
17:53 the investment wasn't there to bring in new players, still isn't but their hands are being
18:00 forced now. We probably saw that core of players who did such a magnificent job getting them
18:08 into the Premier League last time and getting them knifed in the table. That core has probably
18:13 stayed together too long and we're now at the stage where it's kind of unavoidable to
18:20 break things up and start again. If you look at the black and white of it, obviously it's
18:24 been a record-breakingly awful season but at least, I totally agree with Leon, it's
18:33 not going to be a quick rebuild and people need to get their mindsets around that but
18:38 at least we're not hearing the sort of things that we were hearing from Andre Brighton-Reiter.
18:44 That is almost the norm when teams go down. You hear all these stories about toxic dressing
18:49 rooms and players giving in. One thing you would say about Sheffield United, yes, there's
18:58 definitely been some horror performances where you've really worried about the character
19:02 of the side but by and large there has been that fight, not just on the pitch but on the
19:06 terraces as well. That's something to start with. It's just highlighted that they simply
19:13 haven't been good enough for the division in terms of ability. Obviously there's been
19:19 a lot of focus this season on the goals conceded, rightly so, when you've conceded 101 but that
19:26 Everton game, the Newcastle game recently has highlighted that there's just as many
19:30 problems at the other end too and as Leon says, they're going to need to get some goalscorers
19:34 in because there's not much there at the moment at either end of the field. It's really quite
19:41 worrying in that regard. We talked a bit last week about attracting loan players with regards
19:47 to Hull and Middlesbrough, didn't we? I think clubs like to send players to those sorts
19:54 of clubs to, as we said, play Premier League football. I think the way Sheffield United
20:00 have got to sell it, and I think probably this is what they did with Doyle and McAtee,
20:04 is send players to Sheffield United and we won't necessarily play Premier League football
20:09 but we'll toughen them up. That is something that a lot of academy players need to learn.
20:16 That's a big selling point for them to try and get some of these players. Of course,
20:21 that means by definition that you've got players who initially aren't that tough,
20:26 aren't that hard into the Championship, so that's difficult. But yeah, I think it could
20:30 be a couple of years to get this rebuild done properly and I think the danger of the way
20:38 this season has panned out is that I think a lot of people are going to be expecting
20:42 clubs to yo-yo. The parachute regiment will just bounce back, like this season's largely
20:49 have and vice versa, the teams that go up will go straight down. I don't think it's
20:54 going to be that straightforward with Sheffield United. I think that parachute money is not
20:59 much of it is going to be able to be spent on players of the quality of Harry Winks and
21:03 Ethan Ampadu and players like that. It's going to be covering debts, investing in areas
21:09 that haven't been invested in properly in the past, going towards the cost of this new
21:15 training ground and not so much on quick fixes. But at least they're in the mindset that
21:21 they know that they have a rebuild. Effectively, it seemed to start when Chris Wilder came
21:26 in in December, so the thinking's already gone into it. They've known for a long time
21:31 that they were going to be in the championship, so all the recruitment lists and everything
21:35 should be very well developed. Just as last time they went down, it took them a couple
21:42 of years to get back, I think it's going to be a similar project this time.
21:45 I think that's it. I think they'll do extremely well if they do manage to pull it off next
21:49 year. Next season, if they can have an element of positivity and progression, maybe the play-offs
21:58 will be around that area. Then the season after, when things have hopefully calmed down
22:04 and they're trying to build something again, then have a bit more of a push in the second
22:08 season. Looking at it pragmatically, that might be the way it goes, which probably tie
22:15 in with Wilder's first era, wasn't it? He obviously got promoted. I think he did the
22:19 finish about 9th or 10th in the first season back in the championship and then they just
22:25 went bang in that second season. I think Chris will have that, perhaps he won't say
22:31 anything, but he might have that in the back of his mind. He just hopes that supporters
22:35 will be with him and view the bigger picture in that regard as well. With the best will
22:43 in the world, it's not all about Sheffield United bouncing straight back. There's an
22:49 overview look at the club, there's things that need to improve and grow again so they
22:54 can get into the best shape when they do get back. Let's just see what the summer brings
22:59 first of all because it'll be a big one. I think supporters want to see, and are right
23:03 to want to see, a team revolve around people like Al Blastow-Brooks, Willa Sula, maybe
23:10 Sam Curtis who made his debut that day. The payoff of that is that does need patience.
23:18 I think it'll be worth it in the long run to get things sorted out and come up stronger.
23:23 But there just has to be that understanding that just because this season all the relegated
23:29 teams finished in the top four, it's not a given every year. This was a very unusual
23:35 season in that respect and people have to bear that in mind. Also, whilst they might
23:40 not be getting the same amount of money, there are other clubs other than the relegated ones
23:44 who are still getting parachute money because it's a three-year thing for those clubs who've
23:50 been up a couple of years.
23:53 Next we turn to Leeds United who played out a 0-0 draw in the first leg of their play-off
23:57 semi-final against Norwich City. In a game where both teams put on a particularly cagey
24:03 display there is still everything left to play for when the fixture heads to Ellen Road.
24:08 Now Stuart, what was your assessment of the game and how do you see it playing out when
24:12 they do head to Ellen Road?
24:13 Cagey's right, play-off games tend to go one of two ways, don't they? Bonkers or cagey.
24:19 I didn't see the Southampton West Brom game obviously because I was still working at Carrow
24:23 Road but it seems like that was pretty similar. I guess from a Leeds perspective, they've
24:28 just basically wiped off the first leg and reduced it to a one-off game at Ellen Road.
24:35 All things equal, which is what you'd want. As much as anything, I suppose it was a bit
24:40 about stemming the bleeding after the difficult end to the season, the first two cheats since
24:46 April 9th. It didn't really work up front. They played Routier as whatever you want to
24:54 call him, a nine, a nine and a half, Harry Kane type role. But he's just not in great
25:00 form at the moment unfortunately, the ball was bouncing off him. All the other things
25:07 you're trying to do around him are obviously affected by that. For people to make runs
25:10 from midfield, to come off the line, you need that ball to stick. Unfortunately, when they
25:15 brought Pirro on for the last half hour, there were still crosses coming over and nobody
25:20 there. Whatever the solution is, they need to have worked that out on the training ground
25:27 these last few days because Patrick Bamford's going to miss the second leg as well. But
25:34 at least there was that solid base. It's going to be a nervy Ellen Road if they don't score
25:40 early. If they score early, it could be great. But if they don't, or if Norwich score early,
25:47 it's going to test the nerves. It's going to be a tough night. It's certainly not straightforward
25:52 for them, despite what we're saying about them wiping away the away leg. Of course,
25:57 we know that David Vardy has been down this route before. It was three draws basically
26:06 with David Huddersfield in the play-offs, wasn't it? Two penalty shoot-outs. He certainly
26:10 wasn't fazed by a nil-nil draw. He wasn't looking at this as an opportunity missed.
26:16 He was just looking at it as one ticked off along the way. I think it's very much in the
26:22 balance. It's exactly how you'd want it to be from a neutral perspective and exactly
26:27 how you wouldn't from an easy United perspective in that sense. But as I say, they've just
26:34 got to get those attacking combinations right. They've got to either hope that Routier can
26:40 find something or that Pirro can come in. There's always the possibility of Maceo Joseph,
26:46 who we talked about in April, about whether it was time to bring him into the side. I
26:52 think because they didn't then, it feels like a big, big ask now to start him in this game.
26:58 We were saying it at the time, but in hindsight, it looks like even more of an opportunity
27:03 lost, not giving him a start somewhere along the line.
27:07 Archer Gray as No. 10 gave them that extra solidity they needed. It did the job in that
27:15 respect. It didn't really help the attacking stuff, but as I say, if the ball's bouncing
27:22 off the centre forward, it's difficult for that No. 10 to get forward and to play those
27:27 passes. I wouldn't pin blame on Archer Gray for that necessarily. I could see it being
27:35 cagey again for however long it takes for that first goal. It could be half an hour,
27:40 it could be an hour. Then it just going bang and things going crazy. I just don't know
27:45 when that bang will be. It might even wait until the shootout. But it's got to come at
27:52 some time that night. When it does, Leeds have really got to pounce and make the most
27:59 of it.
28:00 It almost doesn't matter how they play and how they do it. Just do it really, isn't it?
28:05 Exactly.
28:06 There's psychological scarring with Leeds. I'm old enough to have been at a few of these
28:12 play-off nights. I don't mean the one in the play-off. I think it's the late 80s at home.
28:18 The last one at home, I went to the Derby second leg when they had all the scarves on
28:27 the seats before kick-off and it was an unbelievable atmosphere. It was a staggering game, wasn't
28:34 it? It just unravelled. I remember doing a first against Carlisle and Preston as well.
28:42 There's probably one or two others as well. I just think if Leeds do find a way, whether
28:46 it's on penalties, whether they play well or if they nick a win, it'll just be so huge
28:52 psychologically for the supporters as well. We all know about this talk of the play-offs.
28:56 At least if they do get to Wembley after getting through a home leg, that'll be significant.
29:04 You just hope it'll be a momentum turner in that regard for Leeds. Then we go on to getting
29:11 another monkey off the back if they do get to the final. We all know about the loss to
29:18 Watford at Cardiff. It was a total no-show. It was pretty much a no-show against Doncaster
29:23 in truth. The better side won in 2008 by a country mile, it's fair to say. First things
29:29 first, from a Leeds perspective, if they can manage to get through it, it doesn't matter
29:34 how they do it really. If they play with a bit of style and a bit of swagger, then that's
29:39 a bonus. Ultimately, when you look at the scoreline, there's a winner and a loser, however
29:49 it transpires. Just hope from a Leeds perspective, given the history, that they're going to be
29:55 the ones who come out on top.
29:57 I mentioned Huddersfield. No Huddersfield fan cares how they got through those play-offs
30:05 and nor should they. It's just about getting the job done. If Leeds win it with an unlucky
30:12 Norwich home goal in the 123rd minute, 1-0, that's fine.
30:18 It could be one of those two. The tone of the game could be quite intriguing, couldn't
30:28 it? If it's 0-0 with 15-20 minutes to go, who's going to push? Who's going to be brave
30:33 enough? Who might think, "We'll leave a few gaps"? It's the same with extra time as well.
30:38 Obviously, you were at the Crewe-Doncaster game on the Friday. Not a great deal happened
30:47 in extra time, did it? It was as if they knew what was going to happen. That could be the
30:52 vibe again at Ellermont. It could be in the other game as well, at St Mary's. That'll
30:59 be fascinating to see how they both work out on the night. You just hope that Leeds are
31:08 going to be the ones who pull through. I'm sure the supporters will be thinking it's
31:12 over due, given the history.
31:15 You've got to hope, really. There's been a lot of talk in the last couple of weeks with
31:19 Daniel Farker about, "We're an inexperienced side and it's cost us." You've got to hope
31:24 the classic cliché about the fearlessness of youth kicks in. Maybe some of these young
31:32 lads aren't quite so aware of the bad history. Ultimately, it is history. It is irrelevant.
31:43 It will impact the mood at Ellon Road. The supporters have got a really tough job to
31:51 put that to the back of their mind and really get behind the players. Obviously, there were
31:59 issues after the game, which the police got involved in, but the atmosphere at Carrow
32:03 Road was fantastic. The Norwich fans really got behind their team. We know what Ellon
32:10 Road is like when the Wolves fans get behind their team, but we're talking about human
32:16 beings who are going to be nervous. They really need to do all they can to put that
32:24 behind them and get behind the team because it will make a difference on the night.
32:29 I think it's funny with Leeds and Norwich. They're obviously not neighbours geographically.
32:33 There has been a little bit of an edge between them over the years. They obviously pushed
32:37 for promotion together a few times, so that will probably add a little bit of spice as
32:44 well. I just hope for the Welsh lads in Leeds' contingent. They had a massive upset in the
32:51 play-offs for the country, Ampadu, Haldon and James. It would be a nice story to go
32:57 full circle if things can turn this time around. There are lots of little narratives and subplots
33:04 as there tends to be at this time of year in these sort of matches. Let's hope we're
33:10 right about a few in a positive sense.
33:14 One that leaps out, Dan Jones was the villain. If you can call anyone a villain for missing
33:19 in a shootout. He's going to have to only play late in the game because he's not got
33:26 19 and mine have 120 minutes in his legs. It's all set up for him to come on either
33:31 late in the normal time or in extra time and do something special. He looked really good
33:35 when he came on in the first leg. That will be a difficult one for Daniel Farker knowing
33:39 when to bring him on. If the game is tight after 75-80 minutes, do you bring him on then
33:46 and potentially have him on for 35-40 minutes or do you wait until extra time? When he comes
33:52 on with his pace, Farker mentioned after the first game about trying to use mobility and
33:59 pace against a Norwich defence where their strengths lie elsewhere. Leeds have got plenty
34:07 of that but James could certainly add something special when he comes on.
34:14 Finally for this week, we turn to Don Casarovas whose run in the league play-offs came to
34:20 an end when they fell to defeat in a penalty shootout with Cru Alexandra. This was then
34:24 followed by Don Casarovas manager Grant McCann telling his players either come back to win
34:29 the league or don't come back at all. Stuart, can you see his frustrations and what do the
34:34 club have to do if they want to go on better next season?
34:37 Yes, a blind man could have seen his frustrations on Friday. They were laid bare after the match.
34:45 He was so down, so flat. But even at his lowest ebb, there's always that underlying determination
34:54 about Grant McCann and that line about 'we're going for the league and don't come back if
35:00 you're not up for it'. That sums it up really. It was a really disappointing night. Obviously
35:08 last week I was overconfident talking about it. I was sure they weren't going to mess
35:15 it up.
35:16 I think most Lancaster fans were as well.
35:17 Exactly. It took all of 16 minutes for that to be blown out of the water. In a way it
35:24 just felt like their season as a whole because once they got those 16 minutes out of the
35:28 way they were much the better team. But you can't keep giving people head starts and get
35:35 away with it. Ultimately, whilst they were the better team, as Leon alluded to talking
35:41 about extra time, it applied to the whole game, it didn't translate into enough work
35:45 for the goalkeeper. Luke Mullen, he was a post for Max Strajic, didn't have much to
35:50 do until the penalty shootout. But yes, McCann was very telling. He was talking after the
35:57 game about how he felt. We know Doncas had a lot of injury problems at the start of the
36:03 season and he said that too many players turned up unfit for the start of pre-season. When
36:09 Leon and I started watching football, that's what you did. You turned up a couple of stone
36:13 under overweight, you sweated it off, you went on long jogs. Nowadays you're expected
36:20 to come back in prime physical condition and just extend it. McCann was saying that not
36:26 enough of his Doncaster players did that. Obviously he came in after the season had
36:31 ended so he hadn't given them fitness programmes. They've got fitness programmes now and they're
36:37 left in no doubt whatsoever that if they're not scoring the scores they need to on the
36:43 bleep test and whatever other tests they do when they come back in June/July, they'll
36:50 be gone by the start of September. There's a real determination about McCann. I think
36:56 the most important thing for me about that night was, Leon mentioned the overconfidence
37:01 of the Doncaster fans, but there was no turning on them at 2-0 down. The support was magnificent.
37:08 It does feel like even just the presence of Grant McCann, then added to by what he's done
37:14 since the injury, has really given that football club hope. We've both talked on this podcast
37:20 the last couple of seasons about what a depressing place it's been sometimes with all hope extinguished.
37:28 To see the place sold out, to see them really getting behind the team before the end, you
37:33 just hope that some of those supporters who were there for the first time are back in
37:37 August, back in the same mood and really pushing them. It does feel like a club that has been
37:45 on a real downward spiral that has sorted itself out mentally. Obviously, it'll be wasted
37:51 if they have another start like they had to this season, but if they can hit the ground
37:56 running, there's something that can really be snowballed then. That club can get back
38:01 to where it should be. As McCann says, I have no arguments with him on that score, they
38:05 shouldn't be in League 2. They're a better club than that. They're a fan base that deserves
38:11 better than that. To me, although I came away disappointed, with genuine hope that it can
38:18 come and this wasn't the end of the story.
38:21 Yeah, I think it was a desperately tough one to take at the time. I'm originally from Doncaster
38:28 and I know a lot of Rovers supporters and they've certainly been feeling it. I think
38:35 when the dust settled, it was a remarkable end to the season. Just remember where they
38:40 were at the start of February, third from bottom. Almost, almost could have produced
38:48 one of the comeback stories in EFL history really. But Stuart's right to say, they still
38:55 have it. It's desperately disappointing what happened on the night, but they've got momentum,
38:59 they've got the mojo back, they've got something to take into next season. McCann's going to
39:04 be fired up. He's had two defeats on penalties now in his two seasons at Rovers. He had one
39:10 a few years before against Charlton and then against Crewe. But yeah, like I said, they've
39:16 got the mojo back, they can really attack it next season. They're going to have to do
39:20 some little bits of work in the summer, I think. Obviously, I think there's an issue
39:25 in the goalkeeping department, maybe bringing in another central defender. Can they get
39:34 through with Wood and Anderson and a lower wall season, that might be something to consider.
39:39 Maybe another forward. Obviously, young Craig will go back to Spurs and he's been a great
39:44 little player, hasn't he? Obviously, someone's going to have to step in there, but it's not
39:48 going to be a matter of having that before with Doncaster, the last few seasons have
39:52 been massive overhauls. I don't think there'll be anything along those lines. But yeah, I
39:58 just think, look how far they've come. They have been on a journey and travelled and obviously
40:05 there won't be any motivation next season. But it was just a funny feeling. I didn't
40:13 expect what happened to happen, but I wasn't staggered as well. I had a little look on
40:20 Facebook in the week before, there were a lot of Rovers supporters on there. A little
40:24 bit of triumph, as if the hard part's done. And Kroeg came in with absolutely nothing
40:30 to lose there. They've got God knows how many players were injured. Nobody really fancied
40:36 them and they just gave it a crack, didn't they? And the first 20 minutes of the tie
40:42 changed it. So yeah, there was just that little thing, not so much arrogance among the Doncaster
40:47 supporters, but as if, well, we've pretty much done it now sort of thing. And a lot
40:51 of, even some friends of mine, booking tickets, travel tickets to Wembley on the train and
40:57 mentioning things about buses and the like. And that all sort of feeds in and I just wonder
41:04 if at the crew end, the man had got wind of one or two of those sort of things. And yeah,
41:11 they just never got going, did they? I mean, Stuart did the game from what I saw. They
41:14 did choke a little bit early on and couldn't get it back. And I think the crowd were just
41:21 so shocked, weren't they, really? But yeah, Stuart rightly again, he said he's great to
41:26 see the keep, was that the keep? Eco Park. You know, packed full to the gills. And I
41:34 can't think of too many other occasions where there's been as many home supporters there.
41:39 Last time was when the manager was growing the can.
41:45 Yeah. And what was there, about 1,500 crew fans? So you're talking there about, what,
41:51 10,000, 11,000 Doncaster fans who turned out. And yeah, I think there'll have been a fair
41:57 few who've probably renewed vows almost after losing patience in the previous year or two.
42:04 You just hope that they'll give them another go and be back on board in August. And obviously,
42:12 McCann's made the pitch. Look, we're going all out for automatic promotion in the league
42:17 next season. And I can say they've got the mojo back, they've got their ambition. And
42:23 even though it's a bitter blow, it'll drive them on. And if they do manage to do it next
42:28 season, I'm sure they'll talk about the events of the night against Crewe and turning it
42:33 around. So yeah, they've got their raison d'etre for next season already, haven't they?
42:39 Yeah, I mean, players can go one of two ways. You just look at the Yorkshire clubs in the
42:43 recent championship play-offs. Huddersfield, well, Barnsley finishing third, Huddersfield
42:48 finishing third. Really disappointed play-offs. Huddersfield end up fighting relegation,
42:53 Barnsley go down. But then you look at Shefford United, they missed out on the players on
42:57 the pool hiking bottom. And the attitude is exactly what McCann's been saying. Well,
43:03 okay, well, let's go automatically next season so we don't have to put ourselves through
43:07 this nonsense again. And listening to McCann, the one that sprang to my mind as someone
43:12 who's worked in the North East before was when Sunderland lost the championship play-off
43:16 final to Charlton in '98/'99. And apparently the players promised exactly that on the bus.
43:21 We're not going through this again. And they won the league the next season with over 100
43:26 points. That was the vibe that Grant McCann was coming out with. And you know with him,
43:34 it's not just words, he genuinely means it. And you know as well that he's ruthless enough,
43:41 and I mean this as a massive compliment, that he won't stand for people who are treading
43:46 water or feeling sorry for themselves or what have you. He will only take with him those
43:53 who are of the right mindset to put this right and to use the hurt. Because hurt and disappointment,
44:00 fear of disappointment, can be really powerful tools in professional footballers. I've been
44:06 through that. I don't want to go through that again. And you know, hopefully this time next
44:11 year we're talking about that as to why Doncaster Rovers have been automatically promoted.
44:17 It almost feels the start of something, doesn't it? You know, if they manage to do
44:22 almost right in the final chapter, a few pages next season. I mean you look at Barnsley in
44:27 different respects. I know they won the second leg and showed a bit of fight at
44:31 Bolton. But that just felt the end of something, didn't it? Quite a few players are going to leave.
44:36 There's a big sense of flux with the manager. And you don't really know which way that one's
44:42 going to sort of go, do you? Whereas at Doncaster it's sort of almost written for them. They know
44:48 in Castine what they need to do next season. They've got the hunger and desire. The sign is
44:54 that Grant McCann wants and he can get them in shape early in pre-season and they can start
45:00 going again. So, yeah, they've got the very, very, very disappointing but they've got the momentum
45:06 and sort of motivation back. But just to go back to what we were saying earlier as well with regards
45:10 to Sheffield United and it probably applies to Huddersfield as well. You know, it's not a quick
45:16 fix when these deep problems have set in. It looks like it's going to be a two-year job for Doncaster
45:25 at best to get things right because you can't just flick a switch and put things right. And if you do,
45:32 as we talked about before, as Rosa was going to try to do, it can paper over crack.
45:36 I think we all got excited when McCann carried out this big overhaul in the summer. But the reality
45:45 was it was always going to take a bit of time for so many new players to bed in, for mindsets to
45:51 change and all that sort of thing. But as Leon says, it feels like they're a big step on that
45:57 path now and it's just a case of keeping your head down and keep it going. I think McCann as well,
46:02 just quickly what he said there about going for the league and the title. Yeah, there's going to
46:05 be pressure on them. They're going to have a target on the back next season. You've just got
46:10 to look at the make-up of that division. You've lost Stockport, you've lost Mansfield, Mansfield
46:17 have got a big budget. You've lost Wrexham, who were the sort of Hollywood side. There's going to
46:21 be a lot of pressure on the backs of Doncaster and Bradford. With respect, you look at the teams
46:27 that have come off from the conference, Bromley and I can't remember the other one. Chesterfield
46:36 might have a little bit of a go for the top six but it looks on paper it might not be as strong
46:43 as it's been this season, next season. For both the main York, there's going to be a bit of
46:51 pressure but you've got to embrace it, haven't you, really, when you're certainly Bradford and
46:56 the Stewards alluded to Doncaster when you're in this division.
46:59 YorkshirePost.co.uk
47:00 YorkshirePost.co.uk
47:13 Many thanks to Stuart Rayner and Leon Wobbshall who will doubtless join us again soon for more
47:16 discussions on the Yorkshire football scene. But don't forget you can keep up to date with
47:20 all the football news across Yorkshire and beyond by logging on to our website at yp.sport@nationalworld.com
47:26 or if you search for Yorkshire Post Sport, Yorkshire Post Football or even Sheffield Sport
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47:38 subject matter as football talk podcast at yp.sport@nationalworld.com
47:43 As ever, many thanks for listening, look after yourselves and bye for now.
47:47 [Music]