• last year
After an opening mailbag segment, Andrew welcomes Patriots greats Devin McCourty and James White back to cover ongoing changes inside the team's building, Devin's recent visit to Foxboro, how to tell when a rookie might surprise and potential breakout players in 2024. Later, Andrew closes with another MailFan segment.


0:00 Intro-mailbag

19:22 Patriots greats Devin McCourty and James White
19:55 Inside the New Patriots Way

32:33 D-Mac/James on Javon Baker's comments

37:45 Team Building during OTAs (James White & Mccourty: Team Building Is Most IMPORTANT in OTAs)

41:25- D-Mac/James on Patriots running wide zone (Rhamondre Stevenson PERFECT Fit for Patriots New Zone Scheme)

46:40 How they can tell if a rookie will break out

50:45 D-Mac/James on whether Maye is ready to start

1:11:00 Who could break out?

1:18:07 Mail fan segment

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Transcript
00:00:00 (upbeat music)
00:00:02 All right, recording here Friday morning.
00:00:16 Excellent episode coming at you.
00:00:19 I think the names say it all.
00:00:20 Dev McCourty, James White, both back on the podcast
00:00:23 for the first time together,
00:00:24 which I gotta tell you was not on purpose.
00:00:26 The plan was actually just to have James White here Friday
00:00:29 and then set up an episode next Monday
00:00:30 with Devin who has been making the media rounds
00:00:33 and split that up, get ahead, kick my feet up,
00:00:36 have a weekend, continue to work on longer stories
00:00:38 for the Herald, which are gonna come out
00:00:39 in the next couple of weeks.
00:00:40 And then we had a timing conflict and I said,
00:00:42 "You know what?
00:00:44 In the immortal words of the immortal Michael Scott,
00:00:48 why don't we just gang bang this thing and get out of here?"
00:00:49 So we have Devin and James here for you today.
00:00:52 I assure you, I did not say those words to them.
00:00:54 They were fantastic.
00:00:55 You missed them.
00:00:56 I love connecting when I can with either one of them,
00:00:58 let alone both at the same time.
00:00:59 And so this was a really great conversation
00:01:01 about basically everything you would wanna know.
00:01:03 Going inside the Patriots building, talking about Drake May,
00:01:06 OTAs and what to expect, and then mini camp
00:01:09 where these guys had so many teammates
00:01:10 that came through Foxborough, some good, some bad,
00:01:13 some less than bad.
00:01:15 And how soon you could tell
00:01:17 whether these guys had it or not.
00:01:20 And they'll tell you what I should be looking for
00:01:23 and then relay to you throughout OTAs and mini camp.
00:01:26 And when you can come to training camp
00:01:28 and see for yourself whether or not guys like Javon Baker
00:01:31 or Leighton Robinson or Jalen Polk,
00:01:33 and of course, Drake May have it or not.
00:01:35 So this is insight, 20 years of experience,
00:01:39 very close to it in the building, Super Bowls,
00:01:42 captains, all that, you know them, you love them.
00:01:44 We're gonna get to them in a second.
00:01:45 But first, a small spiel from me, then mail back questions.
00:01:49 And then the backend of this mail fan with Jordan Boss,
00:01:51 who for the second time,
00:01:53 since we've opened the mail fan segment
00:01:54 where you ask me a question,
00:01:56 you donate to Boston Children's
00:01:57 and you get your own segment.
00:01:59 It's gonna wrap things up.
00:02:01 I just wanna say thank you
00:02:03 because it hit me this week is life
00:02:06 as far as the Patriots go,
00:02:07 kind of slowed down a little bit, right?
00:02:08 Like there's nothing faster
00:02:10 than the final stretch heading into the draft.
00:02:12 The draft itself is a marathon.
00:02:14 And then you sit with your own thoughts and your grades
00:02:16 and you do a podcast and you finally breathe.
00:02:18 And so in the process of finally breathing,
00:02:20 it hit me that this podcast has been going on
00:02:23 for a little over two years.
00:02:25 And we've had so much growth,
00:02:27 whether it comes in from the views or listening
00:02:29 or forget all of the numbers.
00:02:30 Just how about having Devin and James
00:02:32 where I love talking to either one of them individually,
00:02:35 but both at the same time
00:02:36 and then getting feedback from you
00:02:38 as to who you wanna hear from.
00:02:39 So as we get old stories from these guys,
00:02:42 as we hand out grades with Doug and Giardi,
00:02:44 as we dance around dick jokes
00:02:46 with the guys from the ringer before the draft,
00:02:48 we're getting close to what the best version
00:02:51 of this podcast is gonna be.
00:02:52 And I think it's just gonna be something
00:02:53 that you know it when you hear it.
00:02:56 I'm gonna feel it when I'm in the middle of it
00:02:58 and to get closer because of your support,
00:03:01 which helps us grow along the way and reach more people
00:03:05 and get better with your feedback,
00:03:06 as well as the guests that we have,
00:03:08 just means so much to me.
00:03:11 So I wanted to say thank you.
00:03:12 And if you feel so inclined to say thank you back,
00:03:15 please leave me a rating or a review.
00:03:17 I think it's been six weeks since we've had one
00:03:19 and my pitch is always the same.
00:03:20 So I should probably change this up.
00:03:22 You've committed, I would estimate about 45 minutes
00:03:25 at least to this podcast episode.
00:03:26 If you have another single minute, just leave a review.
00:03:30 Just give us five star, four star, whatever it's gonna be.
00:03:32 We take all the feedback, good and bad.
00:03:34 So please give us the feedback if you have some,
00:03:36 again, with a rating or review, preferably an Apple,
00:03:38 but also wherever you get your podcasts.
00:03:41 And so to again, say thank you,
00:03:42 we're gonna lead with the mailbag
00:03:44 and then get to Devin and James.
00:03:45 And I promise, this is something
00:03:47 where I almost always break this promise.
00:03:50 I said, this is gonna be quick.
00:03:51 And then I finished at the end of a three minute monologue
00:03:53 in a conversation that's supposed to be
00:03:54 with another person.
00:03:55 We are gonna go rapid fire with these mailbags
00:03:58 because of course you wanna get to Devin and James
00:04:01 and they were great.
00:04:02 So here we go.
00:04:03 I said from Twitter this week, a couple of days delayed,
00:04:05 apologies for folks who wanted these answers right away.
00:04:08 Here they are.
00:04:09 Aaron, quote, are the Pats still seeking
00:04:10 your true number one wide receiver?
00:04:12 Aaron, I gotta tell you, I think that boat has sailed
00:04:15 and it's not because the Patriots just gave up.
00:04:17 It wants to sail away from them.
00:04:19 It's just the nature of the market.
00:04:21 I think the last chance, and I could be wrong,
00:04:23 but was Brandon Iuke or Debo Samuel,
00:04:26 who reportedly the 49ers wanted a high first round pick
00:04:31 that could have landed them Malik Nabors
00:04:33 or Marvin Harrison Jr. or Roma Doonzay
00:04:35 so that they could just trade away the proven receiver
00:04:39 for the supposed can't miss prospect
00:04:41 and just keep marching onto the Super Bowl.
00:04:43 That obviously didn't happen.
00:04:44 So they're gonna run it back around Brock Purdy's contract
00:04:46 for one more year, hope to resign Brandon Iuke.
00:04:49 I wouldn't rule out a possibility that this happens
00:04:51 maybe in the summer.
00:04:52 Let's say Ricky Pearsall, who obviously
00:04:53 San Francisco just drafted, just completely balls out.
00:04:56 Maybe, maybe then they're more open to trading Debo,
00:04:59 who I think is more likely trade target for anyone.
00:05:01 But for now the Patriots,
00:05:02 like those are the names that are out there.
00:05:05 We talked about Teagans.
00:05:07 You don't use a franchise tag unless you wanna keep him.
00:05:09 That's the beauty of the franchise tag for a team.
00:05:11 He's gonna stay put, so will the 49ers.
00:05:13 I think everyone's just gonna be in wait and see mode
00:05:16 maybe until next off season.
00:05:17 Pats fan Kevin, quote, what's a scoop running back?
00:05:20 Feels like an area where there's usually three or four
00:05:23 viable names in the roster, but currently there's only two
00:05:26 that feel like realistic roster locks.
00:05:29 I was very surprised there wasn't a day three pick here.
00:05:31 Do you feel a veteran edition coming?
00:05:33 Yeah, possibly.
00:05:34 I think they have indicated they're higher on Kevin Harris
00:05:39 than you are.
00:05:40 And I think that's not necessarily earned,
00:05:43 but obviously they're around Kevin Harris more than you
00:05:45 or I are.
00:05:46 That being said, I wouldn't rule out a veteran edition.
00:05:49 I think it might be health related.
00:05:51 There are three other backs behind Kevin Harris,
00:05:53 giving them six deep at the position.
00:05:55 And this is something that we've talked about
00:05:57 a lot on the pod.
00:05:58 Rushing success is not so much the guys
00:06:01 who's carrying the ball.
00:06:03 It's how the offensive line performs in front of him
00:06:05 and then how many defenders from the other side
00:06:07 of the line of scrimmage.
00:06:08 So the Patriots go, if we can do our job upfront
00:06:11 or create favorable boxes through formations or motion
00:06:15 or any kind of scheme, then we can run the ball,
00:06:17 whether it's Stevenson, who's still a good runner
00:06:19 or Antonio Gibson, who I think is an improvement
00:06:21 over Ezekiel Elliott.
00:06:22 But if either one of those guys goes down,
00:06:23 absolutely in training camp or the preseason or early season,
00:06:27 they're gonna sign a veteran back.
00:06:29 Doug, with the draft in the books
00:06:31 and looking at the roster, what remaining free agents
00:06:33 should the Patriots be targeting to fill the roster holes?
00:06:35 So it's funny that I waited a day for this
00:06:38 because the Patriots had two roster spots
00:06:40 when I was writing Wednesday going,
00:06:42 "What's their next major move gonna be?
00:06:44 Is it a bit of a zappy trade?
00:06:45 Is it cutting to introduce Miss Schuster?
00:06:47 Could it be signing an offensive tackle?"
00:06:49 And then they signed an Ed Rusher
00:06:51 and then they signed Joey Sly, a kicker.
00:06:53 So there go the two free roster spots.
00:06:55 They have no roster spots available,
00:06:57 again, as we record here Friday morning.
00:06:59 What I would say though is, if training camp starts slowly,
00:07:03 like last year when it was apparent, not just to me,
00:07:06 but to coaches I spoke to about this,
00:07:08 where Riley Reif, without pads on
00:07:10 the first couple of days of camp,
00:07:12 got demoted from first team right tackle to second team
00:07:16 and then later moved to guard,
00:07:18 because in the words of someone I spoke to,
00:07:20 "If we had 10 reps of pass rush
00:07:23 between Riley Reif and Josh Uche,
00:07:25 Uche would win nine and the last one might be a tie."
00:07:28 So my point in bringing that up is,
00:07:30 if Chucks Okorafor or Caden Wallace or Calvin Anderson
00:07:34 is not ready at left tackle, Bakhtiari,
00:07:36 and maybe Charles Leno would be two names
00:07:38 that I would watch for because those are proven left tackles
00:07:41 not cross your fingers like Okorafor and Caden Wallace.
00:07:44 Maybe they can do it, maybe they can't.
00:07:45 And guys who are available, Bakhtiari,
00:07:47 obviously with Green Bay,
00:07:48 neither in the eyes of the front office
00:07:51 are gonna be your starters for the whole season.
00:07:54 But at that point, you just need a body.
00:07:56 And I don't think the Patriots can afford to wait
00:07:58 like they did with Riley Reif and Calvin Anderson,
00:08:01 emergency training for Tyron Wheatley Jr.
00:08:03 and Vardarian Lowe in late August.
00:08:05 I think it would be early August
00:08:06 if they see they're in trouble,
00:08:07 because you just, you can't.
00:08:09 You would hope, you would think, you would pray,
00:08:11 suffer the same fate at tackle as they did last year.
00:08:14 And really, if we're being honest,
00:08:16 it right tackle the year before.
00:08:18 Gary, two part question.
00:08:19 Quote, one, will any other player sign an extension
00:08:22 before week one?
00:08:23 B, if so, who is that player?
00:08:26 I don't see it.
00:08:27 So I don't really have a player here for you.
00:08:29 And if there is a player, you're looking,
00:08:32 the 21 draft class just recently became extension eligible.
00:08:37 That's why Christian Barmore got done.
00:08:39 No one in 22 is available or eligible
00:08:42 for an extension right now.
00:08:44 So Stevenson's the last one,
00:08:46 and maybe they get some sort of team friendly deal with him,
00:08:49 but the running back market is so,
00:08:52 I don't know how I put this.
00:08:53 It's not fragile, but it's difficult to navigate or predict
00:08:58 based on the deals that the top editor has got this year,
00:09:00 Josh Jacobson, Siquont Barkley,
00:09:02 and how Stevenson might view himself.
00:09:04 If he wants a bag, then he's not going to get an extension.
00:09:07 If he really wants to stay
00:09:08 and take like an Uche level team friendly deal,
00:09:11 then yeah, maybe he gets one.
00:09:13 But I just don't see that happening.
00:09:14 I think he's a guy who will want to hit the market.
00:09:17 Though he said on the record,
00:09:18 he wants to be here for countless years.
00:09:19 It's just, it doesn't seem like good team business
00:09:22 or a number that's going to be high enough for Stevenson
00:09:26 just to take before he could hit the open market
00:09:29 and have all of his options open.
00:09:31 Dan, do you have confidence that the new offensive staff
00:09:34 will be able to organize a competitive offense?
00:09:36 Define confidence.
00:09:40 Like I, I don't remember what I gave Alex Van Pelt
00:09:44 for a grade, and I think whatever that grade is
00:09:46 has been bumped up by half a letter right now
00:09:49 based on things I've learned
00:09:50 and spoken to people close to him
00:09:51 and who have worked with him before.
00:09:53 I think the scheme will be simple and complimentary enough,
00:09:57 but there's a real concern on my end
00:10:00 as far as how many other teams
00:10:01 would have signed some of these other assistants
00:10:03 or in fact let some of these assistants walk
00:10:05 from Cleveland or New York,
00:10:07 where you look at now offensive line
00:10:08 and running backs for the Patriots,
00:10:11 you know, that they really had competition for.
00:10:13 It's the same thing for a player.
00:10:14 If you're the only one bidding for a free agent
00:10:17 or looking to draft someone,
00:10:19 there might be a reason for that.
00:10:20 Doesn't mean that you're wrong
00:10:21 and everyone else was right,
00:10:23 but there's just a lot of coaches and assistants
00:10:25 who fit into that category.
00:10:26 So I don't know, like C plus,
00:10:29 and that has a lot to do with Alex Van Pelt
00:10:30 and a little bit more to do with Ben Bacadu
00:10:32 than I expected.
00:10:33 But if he's just focused on the quarterbacks,
00:10:35 not running an offense, not leading a room,
00:10:36 not leading a team,
00:10:38 that might be a much better role
00:10:39 than I expected when he was first hired.
00:10:40 So it really comes down to those two guys.
00:10:43 Overlapping questions.
00:10:44 We got two more.
00:10:44 The first one is the overlap.
00:10:47 Chris and Mare Musings.
00:10:49 Who do you see as the starting left tackle?
00:10:51 Is the transition from right tackle to left tackle
00:10:53 as easy to make it seem?
00:10:54 And Mare Musings brought up Calvin Anderson.
00:10:56 So right now, based on what the Patriots have told us,
00:10:59 I would say, and Elliott Wolfe
00:11:01 answered this question himself.
00:11:02 So this is not a projection.
00:11:03 This is what he said.
00:11:04 Either he was lying
00:11:05 or they've already changed their minds.
00:11:07 If it's not, Chukwuma will call for it.
00:11:09 That's it.
00:11:10 They're gonna give a guy
00:11:11 who was the Steelers starting right tackle
00:11:13 the last three years
00:11:14 and has only played left tackle in the NFL
00:11:17 during the preseason
00:11:18 a chance to be their starter week one.
00:11:21 Now, they won't have pads on
00:11:23 until the second week of training camp.
00:11:25 So he can be there and you can glean some,
00:11:27 as we just talked about with Riley Reif.
00:11:29 How well you're holding up against speed rushes
00:11:31 or are you executing your assignments?
00:11:32 How's your contact balance?
00:11:33 All these things without pads,
00:11:35 but he'll be the guy week one.
00:11:36 Calvin Anderson is someone who has had many more starts
00:11:40 at left tackle,
00:11:41 but was more of a swing guy in Denver,
00:11:43 who we just talked about players that teams don't want.
00:11:46 He fit that category a year ago
00:11:49 when he signed in New England.
00:11:50 So I don't think, based on last year's tape,
00:11:52 when he missed all the camp and was sick,
00:11:55 and there will be more on that coming out, I think,
00:11:58 in the next few weeks and months,
00:11:59 and I'll leave it there.
00:12:00 It's his health, it's his business.
00:12:02 But I don't think you can pencil him at left tackle.
00:12:05 I don't think it's fair to judge him
00:12:06 what he did at right tackle,
00:12:08 not having a whole summer and being thrown out there
00:12:10 against the Eagles and the Dolphins.
00:12:12 But I think what they really hope
00:12:14 is that it's Caden Wallace is the answer to your question.
00:12:17 Now, last one from Epri.
00:12:18 Quote, "You mentioned recently,"
00:12:21 kidding me,
00:12:22 "Elliott Wolfe spent wisely and for agency,
00:12:24 "aside from re-signing players,"
00:12:26 which is a good thing.
00:12:28 That was his parenthetical, not mine.
00:12:29 "No money was spent to improve,
00:12:31 "even if it was just the offensive line
00:12:33 "upgraded and for agency.
00:12:36 "It would have allowed for more maneuverability
00:12:38 "in the draft.
00:12:39 "Why are you so high on Elliott Wolfe?"
00:12:41 So let me say this.
00:12:43 I am an Elliott Wolfe believer.
00:12:46 I've told you this, I've written it.
00:12:48 It doesn't mean I see Super Bowls in the future
00:12:51 or the playoffs in two seasons.
00:12:53 But from everything I learned talking to GMs,
00:12:55 like John Schneider, who won a Super Bowl,
00:12:58 Jason Light, who won a Super Bowl,
00:13:00 Nick Casario, we can all see what he's doing
00:13:02 down in Houston now that he's finally
00:13:03 has full control over roster,
00:13:05 Dave Ziegler, and even Brian Gutekunst,
00:13:07 who worked with Elliott for years and years
00:13:09 and years in Green Bay,
00:13:11 all of them gave Elliott rave reviews.
00:13:14 And I get that they know their words
00:13:16 are going on the record.
00:13:17 So no one wants to be a dick in public,
00:13:19 especially with someone that you have to,
00:13:21 at some point, maybe negotiate with,
00:13:23 talk trade with, or otherwise do business.
00:13:25 That said, everything I heard about Elliott
00:13:28 on that level with the GMs or scouts underneath him,
00:13:31 people who used to work with him,
00:13:32 people who knew him in Green Bay,
00:13:35 was just sterling stuff.
00:13:37 Now, in my own view, I would take issue
00:13:40 with the description you just had there.
00:13:42 They didn't make any effort to improve.
00:13:43 Jacoby Percet immediately brings some competency,
00:13:46 some organization, some leadership
00:13:49 to that quarterback room.
00:13:50 He would have been far and away
00:13:52 the Patriots' best quarterback last year,
00:13:54 given what we saw, okay?
00:13:56 They also upgraded a running back with Antonio Gibson.
00:13:59 And you could make an argument Austin Hooper
00:14:01 is better than what Mike Kisicki gave them.
00:14:03 And even if you don't want to make that argument,
00:14:04 what I would say is there was no baseline guarantee.
00:14:09 There was no copying and pasting the 2023 defense
00:14:12 and roster and just into 2024.
00:14:15 Kyle Duggar could have left him free agency.
00:14:16 Michael Mueno could have left him free agency.
00:14:18 Hunter Henry could have gone.
00:14:19 Josh Ucce could have walked out that door.
00:14:20 And Frank Jennings.
00:14:21 So there was a much lower floor
00:14:26 to this team than we will ever see
00:14:28 because those guys were re-signed.
00:14:30 All of which were re-signed to team-friendly
00:14:34 or just perfectly reasonable deals.
00:14:36 Like Ucce was an incredible steal.
00:14:39 And I'm not here to just applaud Elliott
00:14:42 at every single move.
00:14:43 I give the whole off season a B.
00:14:45 But what I see is discipline in free agency.
00:14:48 Where they pursued a receiver
00:14:49 like you should pursue a Calvin Ridley.
00:14:51 But at some point came to stop.
00:14:52 And Doug Kide shared this with you last week,
00:14:55 earlier this week.
00:14:56 That might be a bad deal in Tennessee for Calvin Ridley.
00:14:59 So I see someone who prioritizes
00:15:00 the right players internally.
00:15:02 I see someone who has a limit in free agency
00:15:04 which you don't see with a lot of GMs.
00:15:05 Especially GMs who are working on an addition.
00:15:08 And then in the draft, takes the quarterback
00:15:12 which we all wanted.
00:15:13 We all saw it was the most reasonable outcome.
00:15:15 And I didn't love the Caden Wallace pick.
00:15:17 But getting a receiver and an offensive tackle
00:15:19 and another receiver, that's how you draft.
00:15:22 Premium positions.
00:15:23 'Cause if you hit, there's no better value
00:15:25 than having a player at a premium position
00:15:28 who's a high-end talent
00:15:29 on a ridiculous cost-controlled contract.
00:15:32 So all of the decisions I've seen the process as sound.
00:15:35 I think they've landed at a good place.
00:15:37 Maybe you want upgrades here or there.
00:15:38 I'm not here to argue.
00:15:39 But as far as free agency, if it wasn't Calvin Ridley, okay.
00:15:43 What other receiver did you want to see them sign?
00:15:46 Because there were names that we threw out there.
00:15:48 Marquise Brown might've been it.
00:15:50 Offensive tackle, Tyron Smith was never going to come here.
00:15:53 Jonah Williams, totally fair gray.
00:15:54 I would have pursued Jonah Williams.
00:15:57 They felt differently.
00:15:58 They didn't want to do it.
00:15:59 And that's why it's not an A, it's not an A minus,
00:16:03 it's not a B plus, it's a solid B for me.
00:16:05 So of all of those things, that's why I am a believer.
00:16:08 So that's about it.
00:16:10 And we are going to get to James and Devin.
00:16:12 One last thank you and request if you have a minute,
00:16:14 please rate and review.
00:16:16 And until then, enjoy this from Devin McCordy
00:16:18 and James White.
00:16:19 Well, let me tell you, soon enough,
00:16:21 we are going to turn our attention to the Celtics and Bruins
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00:17:07 All right, come back in time with us.
00:17:09 It is summer 2017.
00:17:11 James White is a big Super Bowl hero.
00:17:13 Bill does not care about that.
00:17:14 So we have blitz pickup in training camp.
00:17:16 Devin versus James.
00:17:18 I need an answer on the count of three.
00:17:20 Who wins the head to head one-on-one blitz pickup?
00:17:23 Devin McCourty, James White, one, two, three, go.
00:17:26 - James, I don't blitz.
00:17:27 - I'm saying me, he's not a blitzer.
00:17:29 (laughing)
00:17:31 - I'm not gonna get on here and your post career
00:17:33 be like, man, I used to do this.
00:17:35 My blitzing was weak.
00:17:36 I need to be unblocked.
00:17:37 - Yeah, until 18, right?
00:17:41 Till Flo finally cut all of you loose.
00:17:42 Like we saw a little bit of time
00:17:44 in that final Super Bowl run,
00:17:45 but you just, you were out on that and come camp?
00:17:48 - Yeah, I mean, if I'm unblocked,
00:17:49 I used to tell Flo, draw that thing up.
00:17:51 Let's do it one way all game.
00:17:53 And then one or two times, send me,
00:17:56 they're not gonna expect that I get a free sack.
00:17:58 If I'm not getting a free sack, I'm good.
00:17:59 That's the one thing about me though.
00:18:01 If I get to the quarterback,
00:18:02 I'm not gonna be like the rest of these slaps
00:18:04 that run full speed in there and then miss.
00:18:06 If I got to the quarterback, I was gonna get a sack.
00:18:09 - Does that check out, James?
00:18:11 - That checks out, man.
00:18:12 He's smart, man.
00:18:13 There's a lot of these other guys
00:18:14 get a little too excited when they get to the quarterback.
00:18:16 (laughing)
00:18:18 - Yeah, it's like, what do I do with my hands
00:18:19 when I get here?
00:18:20 A kid going to approach a dog or something.
00:18:22 You just didn't expect to get that close.
00:18:24 - That's the worst thing about pass.
00:18:26 I remember we played Lamar Jackson and Chase Wendover.
00:18:29 We talked about it all week.
00:18:32 You're not gonna run in there and sack this guy.
00:18:35 Him and Uche run in there and they're like,
00:18:37 "Man, he's so quick."
00:18:39 Yeah.
00:18:40 (laughing)
00:18:41 We talked about that all week, guys.
00:18:42 Slow down, he's gonna make you miss.
00:18:44 - Yeah.
00:18:45 Well, appreciate both of you coming on.
00:18:47 We got a lot to talk about here today.
00:18:49 So I wanna dive right into it, especially Devin.
00:18:50 You took a train.
00:18:51 Were you coming from New England today?
00:18:53 I know you said you got back home in Jersey this morning.
00:18:55 - Yeah, I was, but I wasn't in Foxborough for this trip.
00:18:59 This was a charity thing.
00:19:01 I was in Boston.
00:19:02 - Oh, good stuff.
00:19:03 Thanks for stopping by and saying hello.
00:19:04 I'm just down the street.
00:19:05 Not a big deal.
00:19:06 (laughing)
00:19:07 But you were recently visited with Drodd
00:19:09 and there are a lot of stories now.
00:19:10 The draft is over.
00:19:12 OTAs are coming up.
00:19:12 We're talking to guys like you would sometimes
00:19:14 once or twice a week.
00:19:15 Hey, what do you think of the new program, yada, yada.
00:19:17 The focus is on what's going inside the building.
00:19:20 Murals are being talked about, messages.
00:19:22 So just from your last visit to the building and Drodd,
00:19:25 take us as best you can inside what that looks like now
00:19:28 under new leadership and with basically a roster
00:19:30 that's already put together.
00:19:31 - Yeah, I think the first thing,
00:19:32 I think it was cool just seeing the different changes
00:19:35 they made inside the building.
00:19:37 I think no matter what, like new regimes,
00:19:40 like you wanna kinda put your mark on it.
00:19:43 You want guys to feel like,
00:19:45 hey, we're coming into a new era
00:19:47 because usually no matter whether you step up
00:19:49 and you're already there or you're a brand new coach,
00:19:51 you're usually coming into a situation
00:19:53 that needs some type of change,
00:19:55 whatever you wanna call it.
00:19:57 So I got to see the mural,
00:19:59 which I think it's a bigger deal than people make it.
00:20:03 I think teams have different things.
00:20:05 I've gotten to see that now, right?
00:20:06 Being retired and doing media,
00:20:09 I go on different teams' buildings
00:20:11 and it's all different kinds of things.
00:20:13 But I think New England has been such like a closed door
00:20:16 type of place that everybody's like,
00:20:18 I heard there's a new mural in there
00:20:20 and it represents this.
00:20:21 And I think the mural, I think it's cool.
00:20:23 Like it's seeing some past legends,
00:20:26 jerseys and stuff that are up there.
00:20:28 And it's this young kid who is dreaming to be a Patriot.
00:20:31 And I think it fits,
00:20:32 I think what they're trying to build there,
00:20:34 I think it fits Mayo.
00:20:36 I think it's just a new regime.
00:20:38 And I think it was a pretty cool idea and concept
00:20:40 that they came up with it.
00:20:41 And I think the coolest thing is the artist
00:20:43 is right from Boston, is from New England,
00:20:46 diehard Patriots fan, grew up a Patriots fan,
00:20:49 never spent much time in Gillette growing up as a kid,
00:20:52 but always was a fan.
00:20:53 So I think that symbolizes what they're trying to go for.
00:20:56 I think that's a pretty cool thing.
00:20:58 - So James, you and I were talking off air.
00:21:00 You have not connected as much as Devin has
00:21:02 with kind of the new regime, all the changes,
00:21:04 except for Ted Harper.
00:21:05 Somehow you connected with the team nutritionist
00:21:07 and that's your only link.
00:21:08 - We had an event together.
00:21:09 (laughs)
00:21:10 - Yeah, so James is doing his own thing out in the Midwest,
00:21:12 but I just want to get your perspective
00:21:13 because with that distance,
00:21:15 not only just like the physical space,
00:21:17 you know, of where you are in Illinois, right?
00:21:18 - Yep, in Illinois.
00:21:20 - But the time that you've been away from the game
00:21:22 and the organization a little bit longer than Devin has,
00:21:23 what do you make when you read and see things on Twitter
00:21:26 of just all of these changes,
00:21:27 whether it's Murrow related or not?
00:21:29 - I mean, I think it's pretty cool.
00:21:30 I think for anybody who's been walking
00:21:32 to the same building year after year
00:21:33 and seeing the same stuff,
00:21:34 you want to see, you know, something new,
00:21:37 something that gets you excited to show up to work.
00:21:39 You know, obviously Mayo has been there as a player,
00:21:41 as a coach, he's seen, you know, a lot of different things.
00:21:44 He's coached, he's played,
00:21:45 he's going to use his experience to help change things
00:21:48 to the way, you know, he wants to do it.
00:21:49 He wants to put his own imprint on it.
00:21:51 With Robin, like we've been seeing in the media,
00:21:53 like we were talking about before we got on air,
00:21:54 you typically never hear anybody else's name
00:21:57 come from within the building,
00:21:58 but you hear, you know, Robin's name
00:22:00 and she's a person who is very active in the community work.
00:22:03 And I think that Murrow kind of speaks to,
00:22:06 speaks volumes to what, you know,
00:22:07 she's done outside of the building
00:22:09 and she's trying to make that a part of,
00:22:11 you know, the football organization,
00:22:12 which it has been, but you don't necessarily hear
00:22:15 that talked about from the coaching staff point of view.
00:22:17 So I think that's a unique aspect
00:22:19 and a unique spin they put on it.
00:22:21 - So the reason I brought up Robin, Devin, to James Off Air
00:22:24 was I was reading about these new slogans
00:22:26 that have an asterisk in the corner.
00:22:28 Did you see any of that when you were in there?
00:22:31 - No, I'm not going to lie to you,
00:22:32 I didn't pay attention to it.
00:22:33 (laughing)
00:22:35 - The reason I brought up, it was in the story,
00:22:36 I came over from the NFL network and we'll skip over this,
00:22:38 but there was an explanation that the asterisk means
00:22:41 or represents the North Star,
00:22:43 which in her sense was it was something
00:22:45 that's always moving, but we're always going to chase.
00:22:46 And my first thought was the North Star
00:22:48 is a little more famous for being fixated in the sky
00:22:51 and it then becomes a joke that you have to explain.
00:22:53 But just like James hit on,
00:22:55 the openness of more people are involved,
00:22:57 they're going to try something new.
00:22:58 I think you'll see with the players, with the coaches,
00:23:00 just like a play call,
00:23:01 they're going to land where they want to.
00:23:02 It just might take a little bit of time.
00:23:04 But I've been very curious about the asterisk.
00:23:06 (laughing)
00:23:07 - Well, I will say Mayo uses that phrase,
00:23:10 the North Star a lot in coaching.
00:23:13 He always talks about the North Star being
00:23:16 whatever we're ultimately trying to get to,
00:23:19 whether it's points allowed on defense,
00:23:21 like whatever we were talking about,
00:23:22 he would have referenced and used that.
00:23:25 So when you say North Star,
00:23:27 I have no idea, asterisk or whatever that is,
00:23:29 but the North Star and what that represents,
00:23:32 I've heard Mayo speak about that multiple times,
00:23:35 like coaching and from his viewpoint
00:23:38 of what he thinks that means, I've heard him use that.
00:23:40 - Okay, all right.
00:23:41 I'll revisit the story or ask around,
00:23:43 and I think they're actually going to do a media tour,
00:23:45 which might be the furthest 180
00:23:47 that you can have on Bill's time.
00:23:48 Yeah, Jarrod has mentioned,
00:23:49 and taking us around, showing us what was new,
00:23:52 and this might be later on,
00:23:53 so I will report back to both of you here on the podcast.
00:23:56 You mentioned the coaching staff,
00:23:57 Dev, you dropped this week that like,
00:23:59 Jarrod had raised the possibility of you joining,
00:24:01 James, I know you've answered the same question,
00:24:03 even if it was just theoretical.
00:24:04 Let's say you guys got to take the job
00:24:07 and it wasn't the insane hours that it is.
00:24:08 I'm curious, what's one change or tweak or idea,
00:24:12 understanding what the building was and the program was,
00:24:15 and what you think it should be or be part of,
00:24:17 that you would have pushed on day one
00:24:18 of this theoretical job as an assistant?
00:24:20 James, you go first.
00:24:21 - For me, it's tough.
00:24:25 You get so used to and adjusted to the current state,
00:24:29 but I'll say, I wasn't on too many special teams
00:24:31 when I played, but I know a lot of guys
00:24:32 that were on special teams, getting more time
00:24:35 to get ready pre-practice,
00:24:37 'cause sometimes you have like 15, 20 minutes,
00:24:39 jump out of a meeting, get dressed, get taped,
00:24:41 try and warm up really quickly, get out on the field.
00:24:43 So giving guys a little bit more time
00:24:45 to get your mind right, get settled in,
00:24:47 maybe look over your plays and all that
00:24:49 before you get out there and get ready to go for practice.
00:24:51 I think that's one big thing that I would change.
00:24:54 Everything else I thought was fairly standard
00:24:56 for when it comes to day-to-day operations.
00:24:58 You're gonna meet a ton, you're gonna walk through a ton,
00:25:01 just giving guys a little bit more time
00:25:02 to get ready to go out there and practice at a high level.
00:25:05 - And that was always a thing.
00:25:07 That was like James knows, we sat in cabinet meetings
00:25:09 all the time with Bill and trying to discuss,
00:25:11 all right, how much is enough time,
00:25:13 and then it would be perfect,
00:25:14 and then one coach would go over his meeting time
00:25:17 that would then make the special teams coach
00:25:19 go over his meeting, and it would just mess up
00:25:21 every other day, it would be unknown.
00:25:24 But honestly, I think for the most part,
00:25:26 they've done a lot of the things,
00:25:28 I think for me, I've gotten to know Mayo pretty closely.
00:25:31 So we used to always talk about different things
00:25:34 that could be done differently,
00:25:35 and I think because Mayo was a captain for so long,
00:25:38 he was always involved in the things that players liked.
00:25:42 So I think the biggest thing is I think
00:25:44 being more collaborative on a lot of different things.
00:25:47 I think that is huge, and talking to Slade,
00:25:50 I think that's a big part of the reason why Slade is there
00:25:54 is I think he's a connective tissue to everything, right?
00:25:58 He can be the guy that talks to people upstairs
00:26:01 in the front office, the players, the coaches,
00:26:03 the staff that are there to help,
00:26:07 the support staff that are there to help the players.
00:26:09 So I think that is the biggest thing
00:26:11 that I would have said of, hey, how do we make this
00:26:14 where more people can do what they do best
00:26:17 and more people can kind of learn how to lead?
00:26:20 I think with Bill, you had a leader
00:26:22 that was there for so long,
00:26:24 it's just people naturally came in and tried to be him,
00:26:27 but there's no blueprint to that.
00:26:29 And I think now they have a lot of people
00:26:31 trying to create that blueprint to be successful,
00:26:33 to be a leader, and they're all trying to work together
00:26:36 to get to that because I think you have to
00:26:38 when you lose such a strong figurehead in the building
00:26:41 like that was there for 24 years.
00:26:43 You can't just say, hey, Gerard, go be Bill.
00:26:45 That's impossible.
00:26:46 You need a lot of people to kind of fill those roles.
00:26:49 - It's funny you mentioned connective tissue
00:26:51 'cause that's also what Bill was too, right?
00:26:53 Like the guy who was the head of the front office,
00:26:54 the head of the coaching staff.
00:26:56 I assume he wasn't with Ted making the meals,
00:26:59 but okaying at least like what kind of BB&Js
00:27:01 you guys had before practice or not at all.
00:27:03 So like that, you need more players or people like that
00:27:06 to kind of bring the departments together
00:27:09 'cause we can say collaboration all we want,
00:27:10 but what does that look like in practice
00:27:12 and who's leading or initiating that collaboration?
00:27:14 Have you talked to Reverend Slate lately?
00:27:16 Can you give us an update more?
00:27:18 Either you guys like what he's been up to in his new role
00:27:20 'cause it sounds perfect for him
00:27:22 is what you just described.
00:27:23 - Yeah, I mean, that was my,
00:27:24 when I went up there for most of the time I was there,
00:27:27 I was just in the office with Gerard and Slate.
00:27:30 And honestly, like it was a little bit
00:27:33 about what they're doing, but I mean,
00:27:34 we've known each other since my rookie year in 2010.
00:27:37 So a lot of it was just like catching up
00:27:40 and talking, talking trash.
00:27:42 And I think the unique thing is for both of those guys
00:27:46 is you were in something for so long
00:27:48 and now they're both in brand new roles.
00:27:51 So I think both of them were like,
00:27:52 man, I'm handling a lot of things
00:27:54 that have nothing to do with football.
00:27:56 And that's every coach I've ever talked to
00:27:58 when they go from being an assistant to a head coach
00:28:01 or for Slate being a player to now being,
00:28:05 coach slash everything else.
00:28:07 And in between it's the how many things we deal with
00:28:11 that don't necessarily on paper
00:28:14 help us go win a football game,
00:28:16 but it helps in the grand scheme of things.
00:28:18 Like we were talking, he was like,
00:28:20 we're talking about childcare.
00:28:22 We're talking about the weight room
00:28:25 and this thing and that thing.
00:28:26 He was like, we haven't even gotten to the three technique,
00:28:30 the wide receiver stance or the new kickoff
00:28:33 and we haven't done ball.
00:28:35 So that to me, it was fun getting there
00:28:38 to talk to them about that.
00:28:40 'Cause I've heard, being back at Rutgers in college
00:28:43 and I remember when Chris Ash took over as a head coach
00:28:45 and he was like, I put out fires all day.
00:28:48 Like I don't get to watch ball till the end of the day.
00:28:51 So I think that has been pretty unique
00:28:52 for both of them being into that.
00:28:54 So it's fun being able to be there.
00:28:56 And I think for me now being in media,
00:28:58 same thing with James is you learn and see so many things
00:29:02 from like you step back and you can just watch
00:29:05 and enjoy the game of football.
00:29:06 So I get to talk to them about conversations I have
00:29:09 with like my coworkers, like Jason Garrett to me
00:29:12 has been a guy that has, I've learned a ton from
00:29:15 because the organization he was in was the Dallas Cowboys,
00:29:18 everything, all eyes on you, decision-making,
00:29:21 all the things that he would look at and review.
00:29:24 So whenever I get a chance to sit down with Gerard,
00:29:26 I just like to pass on that knowledge
00:29:28 and tell him the different things I've learned.
00:29:29 So I always try to do that, whether it's in person
00:29:33 or if we're catching up on the phone
00:29:34 or anything like that.
00:29:35 But he never, he doesn't come to me
00:29:37 to help be the head coach of the Patriots.
00:29:39 I don't have those answers.
00:29:41 - Not to bust on your guy,
00:29:44 but have you shared any clapping techniques
00:29:45 that Jason might have found anyone else?
00:29:48 You get a lot of love on Twitter spaces
00:29:50 when you were playing for just this constant on the sideline.
00:29:53 You aware of that?
00:29:54 It was just always this, down 30, this, up 30, or this.
00:29:58 - You gotta keep it the same, man.
00:30:00 - One real quick thing,
00:30:05 'cause you mentioned putting out fires
00:30:06 and this isn't a fire, but it's not to make light
00:30:10 of a rookie being anything more than a rookie.
00:30:11 But when you talk about things off the field
00:30:13 that don't talk to winning, that he might have to handle.
00:30:16 Javon Baker's Zoom.
00:30:17 I don't know how much either of you saw that.
00:30:19 Making people stand up out of wheelchairs.
00:30:21 The first thought that hit my head
00:30:23 was Bill would have traded his ass for a future fifth
00:30:26 as soon as the Zoom was over.
00:30:27 Is that something that you're talking about?
00:30:30 And this goes to either of you, where it's like,
00:30:32 I have to deal with this in a leadership position.
00:30:34 You guys have been around other head coaches,
00:30:35 even if it's not football.
00:30:36 And if so, what was your reaction to hearing that?
00:30:39 - It was when I talked about it with Judon on my podcast.
00:30:43 That's a guy you gotta take under your wing, 100%.
00:30:46 I like the confidence though.
00:30:47 He's gonna come in motivated.
00:30:48 Like he said, he wants to bring the hard work,
00:30:51 the winning mentality back in there.
00:30:52 So I think he has the right mindset.
00:30:53 I think it was more about where he got drafted.
00:30:56 He thought he should have got drafted
00:30:57 higher than what he is.
00:30:58 And now that's like the new thing with the kids.
00:31:00 Like they jump on Instagram Live
00:31:03 as soon as something happens
00:31:05 and they share their thoughts and feelings
00:31:07 versus in the past, you wait till the media calls you.
00:31:10 You talk about it, you can do it all by yourself.
00:31:12 So yeah, he was still fresh asking for drink,
00:31:14 where the drinks at and all that.
00:31:16 So he didn't get portrayed in the greatest light.
00:31:19 But like I said, you see the videos of him working out
00:31:22 against some of the top corners from the draft and all that.
00:31:24 So he's putting in the work.
00:31:25 It's all about when he shows up into the building.
00:31:28 I don't think it'd be necessarily a big deal.
00:31:30 I'm sure Mayo, I'm sure Mayo have some cooked up for him
00:31:33 the day he steps into the building for the team meeting.
00:31:35 I'm sure they'll get a big kick out of that,
00:31:37 especially if he now winning some reps.
00:31:39 (laughing)
00:31:42 - I thought it was flowers.
00:31:44 - That first day, like MF and liquor.
00:31:45 It wasn't just where the drinks at,
00:31:47 it's where the MF and liquor at one o'clock on a Saturday.
00:31:50 (laughing)
00:31:51 - And you need, like they need that.
00:31:53 You need, I always tell people, James and myself, Slate,
00:31:57 we were all a certain way.
00:31:59 But the truth is you can't have a team full of-
00:32:02 - Why you ain't say me?
00:32:03 (laughing)
00:32:05 - Yeah, what's up?
00:32:05 - You wanna get up at my house.
00:32:07 - All day.
00:32:08 - Just walking around, just walking around his big crib.
00:32:10 (laughing)
00:32:11 And look at this, I like this, man.
00:32:13 What's up James?
00:32:14 What's up, man?
00:32:14 - Yo, we're doing a podcast, bro.
00:32:17 - All right, podcast for free.
00:32:18 - Yo, come on in.
00:32:19 Get what Jay say about Javon Baker's comments the other day.
00:32:23 - Oh, I love it, man.
00:32:25 You talk about superior confidence right there,
00:32:27 and they're gonna have to tamper him down.
00:32:29 Now who knows, though?
00:32:30 Nails in office now.
00:32:32 They're always out the window.
00:32:33 Let him talk his trash.
00:32:34 - Well, I text Slate right away,
00:32:36 and I was like, hey, the first thing I thought of
00:32:39 when I heard that was, this guy's the second coming of Jesus.
00:32:42 Jesus is the only guy that was out there
00:32:44 healing people, that's what you do.
00:32:46 Couldn't walk, now he's making people walk.
00:32:48 I was like, this is awesome.
00:32:50 But I think you can't have everybody who's by the book.
00:32:53 Jamie Collins came in, Jamie wasn't by the book.
00:32:56 Jamie was a dog for the Patriots, making him play.
00:32:59 Like, you need guys to be like that,
00:33:01 to have that edge to 'em.
00:33:03 And it seems like Baker's gonna have that,
00:33:05 and it seems like they might've got
00:33:07 the leader type of guy in Pulp.
00:33:09 And now you get to build a room around these guys,
00:33:12 hopefully going forward into your future.
00:33:14 So I liked it.
00:33:15 I think receivers need to have a certain level of confidence.
00:33:18 They need to be a little crazy.
00:33:20 And I'm anxious to see what you guys say in training camp.
00:33:24 Like, right, put 'em out there,
00:33:25 and you're gonna have Pep.
00:33:26 Pep's gonna be out there yelling and screaming.
00:33:29 So it's gonna be interesting to have that dynamic,
00:33:32 to have those guys with Bourne,
00:33:34 with KB yelling and screaming.
00:33:37 I think that they need that.
00:33:38 I think they need that on offense,
00:33:39 some skilled guys that just go out there and compete,
00:33:42 but are also gonna tell you about it.
00:33:44 So it should be fun to see.
00:33:46 - I'm so glad you say that.
00:33:47 First of all, as the content creator media member in me,
00:33:50 I will actually take a team full of Javon Bakers.
00:33:52 But the point being that, like, if you did have that,
00:33:55 what makes him special, or KB, for example,
00:33:57 energy he brought in 21 when he first gets there,
00:33:59 that stands out because he's a one of whatever
00:34:01 in that locker room.
00:34:03 But I am curious, when you text St. Slate,
00:34:06 this is the second coming of Jesus,
00:34:08 the 21-year-old who had just been in Instagram Live.
00:34:10 How did that God-fearing man take that text,
00:34:13 and how did he respond?
00:34:15 - We just got emojis flowing back and forth.
00:34:17 (laughing)
00:34:19 - Like hellfire brimstone or fire comments?
00:34:21 'Cause those are very different, but it's the same emoji.
00:34:24 - It was just laughing emojis.
00:34:26 I think that's the thing, right?
00:34:29 You draft a young kid who, like James just said,
00:34:32 he's excited, he's like, man,
00:34:33 all these guys are better than me,
00:34:35 and comes in with a chip on his shoulder.
00:34:37 And then I think the key is to back it up.
00:34:39 And I saw James had Judon on, and Judon was like,
00:34:43 he can't walk in with his book bag on, with his head down.
00:34:46 Like you said what you said,
00:34:47 come and work your butt off and go do that.
00:34:51 We want that.
00:34:51 If I'm on defense, I'm all for Baker guy
00:34:54 making people stand out of their wheelchairs.
00:34:56 I'm all for it.
00:34:57 That means touchdowns, yards.
00:34:58 Let's see it, let's have it, you know?
00:35:00 So should be fun to see.
00:35:02 - Awesome, all right, let's talk some ball, shall we?
00:35:04 James, when we're making a checklist,
00:35:07 and look, to be clear,
00:35:08 my OTA checklist is very different from yours.
00:35:09 I'm bugging Stacey James every single day.
00:35:11 I want Jayvon Baker,
00:35:12 and I want the quarterbacks to talk every single day
00:35:14 after practice.
00:35:16 But in the times that we used to see you guys at practice,
00:35:18 and will now, it just took like once a week
00:35:20 or once every 10 days.
00:35:21 You know, it's always installs, right?
00:35:23 It's, you know, sometimes Texas drills, non-padded stuff,
00:35:26 the basics all the way down in the classroom.
00:35:28 Aside from that, what do you want the Patriots
00:35:31 to prioritize and say,
00:35:32 if we get only two or three things out of OTAs
00:35:34 this spring in mini camp?
00:35:35 It has to be, you know, A, B, and C.
00:35:39 - For me, the number one thing is team building.
00:35:41 I know we did a ton of it, you know, when we were there,
00:35:43 even though we maintained a lot of the same players
00:35:45 on the roster.
00:35:46 Now you got new coaches,
00:35:47 guys come from all over the place, different players.
00:35:49 Make sure you guys learn about one another,
00:35:51 the quarterbacks, learn the offensive coordinators,
00:35:53 the quarterback coaches,
00:35:54 'cause that's what matters most, you know?
00:35:56 Learn how these guys learn,
00:35:58 learn how they, you know,
00:35:59 go out there and perform on a day-to-day basis.
00:36:01 I think that's huge.
00:36:03 And then have fun.
00:36:04 And obviously, offensively, they just gotta build chemistry.
00:36:07 You got a whole new, you know, offensive coordinator,
00:36:09 new players coming in there, build the chemistry.
00:36:11 And it starts right now in OTAs and all that.
00:36:14 If you come out BS and bullshit in their OTAs,
00:36:17 that shit gonna roll over into training camp
00:36:19 and roll over into week one, week two, week three.
00:36:22 So I think it's very important for them
00:36:23 to hit the ground running offensively,
00:36:25 get sure up that offensive line.
00:36:27 You know, you can't really establish, like,
00:36:29 the run game in OTAs and all that.
00:36:30 But the fundamentals is making sure the ball's
00:36:33 not hitting the ground too many times,
00:36:35 getting everybody up to speed.
00:36:37 I think that's really the most important things.
00:36:38 And as an offense, especially collectively,
00:36:40 they have to be on the same page.
00:36:42 And I said, those are the few things
00:36:44 that I think are very important for them during OTA season.
00:36:47 - Yeah, I mean, I agree.
00:36:48 I think James hit it.
00:36:50 The relationship, to me, that's trust.
00:36:52 They have to build a trust, not just, you know,
00:36:54 for the players on the field, it's the scheme, the system.
00:36:59 Like, there's been a lot that's happened in the last few years,
00:37:02 especially on offense, of different coordinators coming in.
00:37:04 So you have to build that.
00:37:06 You have to build that trust where the player knows
00:37:09 what you're telling me, or if I ask a question,
00:37:11 you can fully answer my question,
00:37:13 or you go to Van Pelt and you go to McAdoo,
00:37:17 whoever you need to go to,
00:37:18 as this new system's coming together,
00:37:20 you get the right answer.
00:37:21 You don't tell me something, then he tells me.
00:37:23 Like, all of those things that can happen on teams,
00:37:26 you don't need that.
00:37:27 I think that's the first thing, like James said, that trust.
00:37:30 I think they have to, it's boring,
00:37:31 but they have to build the fundamentals.
00:37:33 You have to have that, I think, on both sides of the ball.
00:37:36 I think they need to be able,
00:37:38 within that trust and the fundamentals,
00:37:39 they need to come together as a team.
00:37:41 I think last year was really tough.
00:37:43 You heard some defensive players kind of, you know,
00:37:46 frustrated after games, like,
00:37:47 I guess we got to hold them to zero points,
00:37:50 or we can't give up.
00:37:52 - That was AP, that was DG, straight to me.
00:37:55 So if you want to blame anyone, it's offense.
00:37:57 - Right, it's true.
00:37:58 - It's offense.
00:37:59 We lose a couple games now, it's six zip, it's 10-six,
00:38:03 it's 10-seven, that gets frustrating as a defense.
00:38:06 So I think you have to have, you know, that side.
00:38:09 I think the third thing for me is just compete.
00:38:11 Like, you want to have competition.
00:38:13 James said, you're not going to have the running game,
00:38:16 but within the passing game, seven on sevens,
00:38:18 all of those things, you want to see everybody compete.
00:38:21 Your receiver room is stacked right now.
00:38:24 It's a lot of bodies in there.
00:38:26 You want to say who's going to compete.
00:38:27 Drills on the offensive line, you know,
00:38:30 Trent Brown's not there anymore, so that's a position.
00:38:32 Cole Strange was hurt a lot last year.
00:38:34 You had different guys in there.
00:38:36 You have kind of Big Mike and Dave coming back
00:38:38 as like guys who have played a good amount
00:38:41 of meaningful football for you.
00:38:42 But other than that, you're trying to find
00:38:44 who's going to fill in and be in those other roles.
00:38:46 So you want to see that.
00:38:48 And I think defensively, you have guys coming back,
00:38:51 a lot of guys coming back,
00:38:52 and you want to just continue to compete.
00:38:55 Hey, what we did last year doesn't just roll over
00:38:57 into this year.
00:38:58 We got to go compete.
00:38:59 We got to make the offense better by going
00:39:00 and shutting them down every day.
00:39:02 Like that should be your mentality.
00:39:03 So I think that's what they want to walk away
00:39:06 from this spring.
00:39:07 - Let's stay with the scheme for a second though,
00:39:09 because this was something that came out more this week
00:39:12 where Mondra confirmed, hey, we're doing a lot of wide zone.
00:39:14 And if you looked at Van Pelt and the Browns,
00:39:16 obviously they did some of that after starting
00:39:18 as more of a man black gap scheme team.
00:39:21 But James, like, you know, we, I looked
00:39:23 at the offensive line this off season,
00:39:24 like that will be the tell.
00:39:26 Is this going to be a gap scheme team?
00:39:27 Are you going to stick with the counters, et cetera,
00:39:29 or pivot to lighter zone team?
00:39:31 And they kind of just ran it back, right?
00:39:33 Like, except for Chucks and Cor for,
00:39:34 they're going with the same line.
00:39:36 What do you make of that scheme fitting the talent
00:39:38 that you know, having played with most, all of these guys?
00:39:41 - I like it.
00:39:42 It's similar to what Sam Fran does,
00:39:44 outside zones, play action, you know,
00:39:46 easy access throws where the quarterback's
00:39:48 not holding the ball too long.
00:39:50 Outside zone, it's a fun play to run,
00:39:52 but obviously it has to be blocked correctly.
00:39:54 Nobody seals off the edges, nobody cuts off the backside.
00:39:57 And you're basically just running to the sideline,
00:39:58 gaining no yards.
00:39:59 So I think you have to build a chemistry offensively
00:40:02 with the people next to you on the offensive line, tight ends.
00:40:05 It takes everybody on every single one
00:40:07 of those plays, receivers too.
00:40:08 But I like the scheme.
00:40:09 I think Ramondre's the perfect outside zone runner.
00:40:12 He's a guy who has enough speed to get to the edge.
00:40:14 He can put his foot in the ground.
00:40:16 They'll make guys miss.
00:40:17 And I think it's very quarterback friendly,
00:40:19 especially for a guy like Jacoby Brissette.
00:40:21 And if Drake May ends up playing at some point
00:40:23 throughout the season, I think that's a very good scheme
00:40:26 to start him off in his career.
00:40:28 And then the defensive side, I mean,
00:40:30 Dev, you faced this offense in '21.
00:40:31 You guys went 45 to 7 at home and then go on the road
00:40:34 and beat Jacoby starting in Cleveland.
00:40:36 What do you think of it just from that vantage point?
00:40:39 You know, how they marry that outside zone
00:40:42 game with the passing game, which
00:40:43 seems like it'll be simplified no matter
00:40:45 who's playing quarterback.
00:40:46 Yeah, I mean, I think the challenge is
00:40:49 because we played against those guys a couple different times.
00:40:52 And we got the best of them in that.
00:40:53 But we had another game where tackling Nick Chubb is--
00:40:58 that's a bit of a problem.
00:41:00 And I think--
00:41:00 Not for Jon Jones.
00:41:01 You talk about 19 when he raced like 60 yards.
00:41:04 Yeah, it was a couple of eight tackles.
00:41:07 I think that's a huge part of the scheme.
00:41:09 I think what James just said, Ramondre's
00:41:11 a perfect bat for the scheme.
00:41:13 And I think that's what it comes down
00:41:15 to when you're defending against different teams
00:41:18 from a defensive standpoint is, all right,
00:41:20 who are they using in this scheme?
00:41:22 That's why San Francisco's tough.
00:41:24 Like, you could talk about their scheme,
00:41:25 but it's like, all right, in this scheme,
00:41:27 it's going to create a one-on-one matchup
00:41:29 against Christian McCaffrey.
00:41:30 We have a guy there to make the play.
00:41:33 He just makes a miss.
00:41:34 So that-- and I think that's what this scheme will
00:41:36 allow you to do, is set up different things with the play
00:41:39 action, with the zone, and then maybe throwing in
00:41:41 some different gap scheme plays within there
00:41:43 is create the one-on-one matchups that you want,
00:41:46 that are favorable to you, and then go from there.
00:41:49 I think the biggest thing for them is,
00:41:50 you've got to be able to win.
00:41:52 You've got to be able to win outside
00:41:54 with all these different things.
00:41:55 When you're running the ball, and you can run the ball well,
00:41:58 the way to stop that as a defense is to say, hey,
00:42:00 we're going to go and leave everybody outside one-on-one
00:42:03 because we think we can stop you one-on-one and stack the box
00:42:06 and do different things to take away the time the quarterback
00:42:10 has to throw and put the pressure on the receivers
00:42:12 versus the DB.
00:42:13 So I think that's something that I think they know.
00:42:16 Like, hey, we've got to win those matchups.
00:42:17 I think when we played them that last time,
00:42:19 we did a good job of covering their guys.
00:42:21 So it made it harder for them to do the different things
00:42:25 in the running game.
00:42:26 And we were able to get a play from ahead.
00:42:28 It changes everything on how you can play the game.
00:42:30 So I like the scheme.
00:42:31 It's just it comes down to execution, like James said,
00:42:34 and winning those one-on-one matchups.
00:42:36 I love that.
00:42:37 I mean, it's the truth.
00:42:38 But it's also like asking someone,
00:42:40 how well do you speak French?
00:42:41 Like, oh, I know it, but can I speak it?
00:42:43 That's the execution part.
00:42:44 It's no good unless you can say the words.
00:42:47 OK, so the draft is behind us.
00:42:49 But that means the best is still ahead of us.
00:42:51 I'm talking playoff games, Celtics, Bruins.
00:42:53 And I'll be there covering the Celtics with the Herald.
00:42:55 We lost our guy Steve Hewitt.
00:42:57 Which brings me to my real point.
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00:44:23 Let's say you guys are back on the team, right?
00:44:25 Not as coaches as I would have.
00:44:26 If you're on the roster, you're eyeing all these rookies.
00:44:28 We talk about Drake May, Jayvon Baker, Jalen Polk, whomever.
00:44:32 What are the first signs that maybe, not definitely,
00:44:35 but like maybe these kids could help us right away?
00:44:38 What are you looking for, the surest signs that like,
00:44:41 they can make an impact early, even before you put pads on?
00:44:45 I think limiting mistakes.
00:44:46 I think that's the huge thing.
00:44:48 As a young player, there's a lot being thrown at you.
00:44:50 You don't want to go out there making the same mistakes
00:44:52 every single day.
00:44:53 When a guy's not making mistakes and he's making plays here,
00:44:56 he makes a play on one day.
00:44:58 Next day, he makes two plays.
00:44:59 Next day, he's like, OK, this dude on the--
00:45:02 he gets a rest for the first team now.
00:45:05 You capitalize on your opportunities.
00:45:06 I think that's the huge thing as a quarterback, though.
00:45:09 I think you want to see them step in the huddle
00:45:11 and get control of the offense.
00:45:13 I can only reference it from Mac Jones.
00:45:15 He was the only rookie quarterback
00:45:16 to come in and start from the time when I was there.
00:45:18 Just like each week, you're like, OK,
00:45:20 this kid's building a little bit more confidence.
00:45:21 He's talking a little bit more in the huddle.
00:45:23 He's making some checks that you don't necessarily
00:45:25 see a rookie quarterback check.
00:45:26 Or he's seeing blitzes.
00:45:27 He's seeing the coverages.
00:45:29 I think that's when you start to build confidence
00:45:31 in a ton of these young players.
00:45:32 And speaking of OTAs, too, like Jacoby Myers,
00:45:34 he's a great example.
00:45:36 During his OTAs, his rookie year,
00:45:38 we had Nikhil Harri the same year as him.
00:45:40 He came in ready to work.
00:45:41 He didn't get many reps.
00:45:42 But each week, he got more and more.
00:45:44 Like, OK, this kid starting to make some plays out there.
00:45:47 Sure enough, he's working his way,
00:45:49 working with the first team.
00:45:50 So I think it's constant repetitions and consistency.
00:45:53 It's hard to-- even for veteran players,
00:45:55 the consistency is extremely hard.
00:45:57 So if those guys can come in, limit mistakes,
00:45:59 and consistently make plays, I think
00:46:01 that's when you're like, OK, this guy deserves to be out
00:46:03 there on the field.
00:46:04 Yeah, I mean, you got to know what you're doing.
00:46:06 And I think that's the key.
00:46:08 Because that's the way I always look at it as young players.
00:46:10 You got to earn the respect from the guys
00:46:12 that are going on the field.
00:46:13 And my rookie year, that's what I was most nervous about.
00:46:15 When I first got in the first team huddle for the first time,
00:46:18 I was like, damn, I'm in the huddle.
00:46:20 Jarrod, and Mayo's making a call.
00:46:22 Vince is right.
00:46:22 Like, I don't want these guys to look and be like, yo,
00:46:25 he doesn't know what he's doing.
00:46:27 And you're looking at the staff now, like, yo,
00:46:29 we don't want him in here with us if he doesn't know.
00:46:31 So I think knowing what you're doing is a big part of it.
00:46:34 Because then you could just go play ball.
00:46:35 You got drafted for a reason.
00:46:37 There's not like this talent gap.
00:46:38 And when you get to the NFL, you're just not good enough.
00:46:41 No, you're probably good enough.
00:46:43 Know what you're doing, and then just go play ball.
00:46:45 So you can start to see that, I think, right away.
00:46:48 I think the athleticism you'll see in drills when you're
00:46:51 doing different things, whether it was JC Jackson,
00:46:54 whether it was throughout my career, Alfonso Dinnard.
00:46:57 We had different guys.
00:46:58 I remember Daron Harmon missed all of spring with an injury.
00:47:02 And we got back for early training camp
00:47:04 because I had shoulder surgery that year.
00:47:07 And we got out there, and I'm like, all right, dude,
00:47:09 as a rookie, I'm going to have to tell him
00:47:12 a lot of different things when we line up at safety.
00:47:14 And I go to tell him, he's, oh, no, I'm down.
00:47:16 I was like, he was studying.
00:47:20 He knows what he's doing already.
00:47:22 And when you get dad and veterans,
00:47:25 I like when these guys ain't here with me.
00:47:28 You can feel a connection to chemistry build.
00:47:30 So yeah, that's my biggest thing.
00:47:32 Just know what you're doing.
00:47:33 And if you don't know, I would always tell young players,
00:47:36 if you don't know what you're doing and we get out there,
00:47:38 tell me, hey, what I got right here.
00:47:40 Don't look at me and just nod your head.
00:47:43 Now, I think you know what you're doing.
00:47:45 And then we mess up.
00:47:46 And we, oh, tell me you don't know.
00:47:50 I'll try to help you get right.
00:47:51 And then we'll move on from there.
00:47:52 And then the next time you get out there, like James just
00:47:55 said, I expect you to know what you're doing on that play.
00:47:58 You cannot know what you're doing again.
00:48:00 Because then it's like, all right,
00:48:01 this guy's not going to be able to help us right away.
00:48:03 He's going to have to develop a little bit.
00:48:05 Well, that speaks to the trust you mentioned, right?
00:48:07 Like building that starts with you
00:48:08 got to demonstrate that ability and that earned trust
00:48:12 that you'll have making play after play.
00:48:14 You guys can tolerate mistakes, but at least know the why
00:48:17 and trust that you knew what went wrong before almost
00:48:19 it even happened.
00:48:20 So you can go back and go, just fix this next time
00:48:22 without having to backtrack through that.
00:48:24 Now, the Packer way, obviously, is something
00:48:26 we've been writing and talking about a lot on my end of things
00:48:28 because of Elliott Wolfe, things Gerard has said,
00:48:30 draft and develop.
00:48:31 And they're going to play the young guys.
00:48:32 So I want to start with Drake May because I don't know how
00:48:35 much you guys have watched me.
00:48:36 James, you've been covering the Big 10
00:48:38 and part of their coverage.
00:48:38 And Devin, you're busy on the weekends I hear.
00:48:41 But just from this kid, what you've heard,
00:48:43 what you experienced with Mac, what
00:48:45 would be a fair scenario in which he starts?
00:48:48 And what signs would you see, whether they involve him
00:48:52 or maybe the line or the receivers that go,
00:48:54 we should probably sit him?
00:48:55 Because I at least think they're going
00:48:56 to give him a chance in the spring and summer
00:48:58 to make that decision for them.
00:49:00 Yeah, it should be an open competition.
00:49:02 It always should be.
00:49:03 Nobody should just be handed the starting job.
00:49:05 Jacoby will get probably the majority of the first team
00:49:08 reps right away, deservingly so.
00:49:10 He's the guy who has the veteran presence.
00:49:12 He's played in the NFL.
00:49:14 But I think for Drake May, it's just
00:49:16 kind of like what I just talked about.
00:49:17 Day to day, just building chemistry with receivers,
00:49:20 building the chemistry with the line,
00:49:22 building chemistry with the backs,
00:49:23 showing some leadership, getting command of the huddle.
00:49:26 There's a lot to know at the quarterback position in the NFL.
00:49:29 And every single day, you're going
00:49:31 to see a different defense, a different coverage,
00:49:33 a different blitz that you've never seen in college.
00:49:35 And they're going to expect you to know how to handle it,
00:49:38 not the coach in the booth telling you to adjust the play,
00:49:42 adjust the blitz scheme, and adjust
00:49:45 the routes from the receiver.
00:49:46 So there's a lot to be learned.
00:49:48 It's not saying that he won't or can't beat out Jacoby.
00:49:51 It very well could happen.
00:49:52 I'm always the biggest fan of letting these guys sit.
00:49:55 And when they earn it, they earn it.
00:49:57 Or if the quarterback, start quarterbacks not performing
00:50:00 well, then you throw them in there.
00:50:01 Because we see, we faced a lot of rookie quarterbacks
00:50:04 throughout my time there.
00:50:05 And some of these guys never recover
00:50:07 from starting their entire rookie season
00:50:08 because their heads are spinning from all the things
00:50:11 that they went out there and failed at early
00:50:13 on in their career.
00:50:15 But just build confidence day to day
00:50:17 and just learn as much as possible.
00:50:19 Be a sponge.
00:50:19 Ask questions.
00:50:21 Ask Jacoby.
00:50:22 Ask the receivers.
00:50:23 Ask the offensive coordinator.
00:50:24 Stay later.
00:50:25 Show up early.
00:50:26 All that good stuff.
00:50:27 Because quarterback's the hardest position
00:50:30 in the game of football.
00:50:31 And I said, the more you practice at it,
00:50:33 the more you rep at it, you'll get better.
00:50:35 Yeah, I agree.
00:50:36 I think they should let those guys go compete.
00:50:39 And I think for Drake May, if he's out there
00:50:42 and he's doing all the line calls and he's comfortable,
00:50:44 he's able to make throws, able to read coverage, then yeah.
00:50:47 I mean, if that's what it looks like in the second or third
00:50:51 week in training camp and you're sitting there and you're just
00:50:53 like, how can we not play this guy?
00:50:56 I mean, we practiced against Houston back
00:50:58 in Deshaun Watson's rookie year.
00:51:00 And I remember being out there and him and Tom Savage.
00:51:04 And I was in school for a year with Savage at Rutgers.
00:51:07 And I remember leaving from those joint practices
00:51:10 being like, Deshaun Watson's not far off from Savage.
00:51:14 Like, the way they're reading the coverage,
00:51:16 the way seven on seven looked like--
00:51:18 I was like, it's not like Savage was out there
00:51:21 and the ball was hitting his hands and--
00:51:23 like, he wasn't just dissecting the movement.
00:51:25 And I was like, once you put in the Deshaun Watson element,
00:51:28 I was like--
00:51:29 and I think it might have been week one, one to three,
00:51:32 where it was like, all right, this game's not going well.
00:51:35 Let's put Deshaun Watson in.
00:51:36 He gets in, makes some plays, and then he's off and running.
00:51:40 So I think they're going to have time to see.
00:51:42 I think one of the key things is I
00:51:44 think they want to just make sure whatever is out there
00:51:47 is stable around Drake May.
00:51:48 I think that one of the hardest things for rookie quarterbacks
00:51:51 is when it's not stable around them
00:51:54 and they're asked to not come only do their job,
00:51:57 but they're asked to be like that true veteran quarterback.
00:51:59 Hey, this guy might be struggling up front.
00:52:02 We got to make sure and be prepared that we
00:52:05 might have to give him help.
00:52:06 So you've got to understand when this--
00:52:08 like, that's a lot to put on a guy.
00:52:10 I think you want to have great stability
00:52:11 with your offensive line.
00:52:13 You want to know your receiver core, who's playing,
00:52:16 who's going to be here, what rotation do we have,
00:52:19 how comfortable do we feel.
00:52:21 The backs that were in there, third down pickup,
00:52:23 you want the back to be really good at understanding,
00:52:26 to be able to help the quarterback where it's not
00:52:29 all on his shoulders.
00:52:30 I think that's what happened for Mac in his second year.
00:52:32 I think a lot of things kind of went and fell on his shoulders
00:52:36 to try to not only get it and do it, but to fix things.
00:52:40 And when you have to fix things, that
00:52:42 makes it really hard as a player.
00:52:43 You want to get to a really veteran level
00:52:46 understanding of what's going on before you're
00:52:49 able to actually help people fix things.
00:52:51 And what we used to say out there on the field
00:52:53 is kind of like--
00:52:54 excuse my language-- but unf--
00:52:56 situations.
00:52:58 That's what we do as a young player.
00:53:01 Yeah.
00:53:01 And as a producer of this podcast,
00:53:03 it needs to enter a bleep at 3418.
00:53:04 Thank you.
00:53:06 But it's a great point because I remember--
00:53:09 like, again, these kids get drafted,
00:53:10 and our job is to dig more about them and learn about them.
00:53:13 And one of the tidbits I'd heard was not only Mac back then
00:53:15 was giving shit to Nick Saban.
00:53:17 It's another bleep, Ahmed.
00:53:19 He was telling the left tackle when he would screw up,
00:53:22 hey, you need to be better.
00:53:23 Like, we will all fall if you do within two seconds there
00:53:26 and don't give me enough time to throw.
00:53:28 And I feel like that's very different from what you just
00:53:30 talked about, right?
00:53:30 Because that's accountability.
00:53:32 But then there's problem solving while you're also
00:53:34 trying to learn.
00:53:35 And so I don't want to rehash the whole Mac experience.
00:53:37 You guys have both talked about that with me
00:53:39 or other people in media ad nauseum.
00:53:40 But it'll be very interesting to see how quickly Drake can
00:53:43 problem solve, if at all, in training camp.
00:53:45 And even if he can, do those habits
00:53:48 of maybe extending plays or scrambling
00:53:50 end up hurting him long term.
00:53:51 Because his solution is to just run away.
00:53:54 And that'll work like four times a game.
00:53:56 It's a killer.
00:53:57 Third down, two minute drive.
00:53:58 We've all seen Padreu Hall's plenty of other people do it.
00:54:00 But--
00:54:00 Zach Wilson.
00:54:01 Zach--
00:54:01 [LAUGHTER]
00:54:03 That's your best pal there, Zach Wilson.
00:54:05 When you break it down, I mean, how many times was he just
00:54:08 trying to make plays that he was able to do in college?
00:54:11 He was able to do that.
00:54:13 Drake May was able to do that at UNC.
00:54:16 I don't care who you bring in.
00:54:17 He's probably not going to be able to do that in the NFL.
00:54:19 And you don't want to learn that that's
00:54:22 the way to play quarterback.
00:54:24 I think that's the biggest thing.
00:54:25 You just don't want to start that habit as a rookie.
00:54:29 I want to run a theory by you.
00:54:30 Because both of you at least watched or saw--
00:54:32 do you see a little bit of Bill on McAfee during the draft?
00:54:35 I saw some clips.
00:54:36 Yeah.
00:54:37 [LAUGHTER]
00:54:37 And I know the sentiment-- like, Brewski tweeted this out.
00:54:39 Like, if you were never in a team meeting,
00:54:41 all these pauses are when Bill is dropping F-bombs.
00:54:43 Or I think, Dev, you might have tweeted,
00:54:45 like, this is the real deal.
00:54:46 Like, he's holding back a little bit on the criticism.
00:54:49 In listening to Bill, drawn on in the media,
00:54:51 very intensely, very well over the years,
00:54:53 I had a theory that whenever he mentioned a quarterback
00:54:56 and didn't say anything about accuracy
00:54:57 or anything about decision making,
00:54:59 but said so-and-so, like Zach Wilson, week two, 2021,
00:55:02 can make all the throws, that was Bill's speak for,
00:55:06 I think he sucks.
00:55:07 Because that was a compliment to the media of, like,
00:55:10 he's so talented.
00:55:11 But my point is with this, again, just theory,
00:55:14 what does it matter if you can make all the throws in shorts
00:55:17 and a t-shirt if you don't know exactly where to put the ball
00:55:20 and you don't know when to do it, which
00:55:22 is the decision-making part?
00:55:25 Is this theory something I've been tweeting for three years
00:55:27 and just sound like an ass, or is there, like,
00:55:29 some substance to this, you think?
00:55:30 I mean, it makes perfect sense.
00:55:32 There's so much more that goes into it.
00:55:34 You can throw the ball 80 yards and make every possible throw.
00:55:37 But if you don't know when to make the throw
00:55:39 or read the coverage, like, who cares?
00:55:41 You know what I mean?
00:55:42 The mental part of the quarterback position
00:55:44 is more important than anything.
00:55:46 You don't have to throw the ball 100 miles an hour
00:55:48 to be able to hit a flat route based on the coverage
00:55:51 that you're seeing or hit a check down based
00:55:53 on the coverage that you're seeing.
00:55:54 If you just know what you're looking at pre-snap
00:55:57 and you confirm it post-snap, you get the ball out
00:56:00 of your hands, you know what I mean?
00:56:01 So there's so much more that goes into the quarterback
00:56:04 position.
00:56:04 I don't think guys should be focused on all the arm talent.
00:56:09 The mental thing is number one for me.
00:56:12 Yeah, I mean, you look at--
00:56:15 I know Josh Allen still gets criticism of decision-making.
00:56:18 But one of the best things he started to do
00:56:21 was check the ball down.
00:56:22 We used to play him early in his career,
00:56:25 and Bill would say to us, don't guard the check down.
00:56:28 Like, nobody should be--
00:56:29 he's not going-- and we would watch clips where he just--
00:56:32 he would buy time.
00:56:33 He would do-- he just wouldn't throw it to the back.
00:56:35 It would be wide open in the flat
00:56:36 and get 5 to 8, 10 yards.
00:56:38 Just wouldn't do it.
00:56:39 Then he started to be like, all right,
00:56:41 if you're going to play zone and stay back
00:56:42 and try to keep me in the pocket,
00:56:44 I'm just going to do this.
00:56:45 And we'll move the ball.
00:56:46 So I just think that's a big part of playing quarterback.
00:56:49 Like, there's so many talented guys that can play quarterback
00:56:53 because they can run fast, they can throw the ball hard,
00:56:57 they have all the special talent.
00:56:59 But can he play quarterback?
00:57:00 And that is yet to be seen.
00:57:03 You have to watch a guy and figure out,
00:57:05 can he play quarterback?
00:57:06 CJ Stroup can play quarterback.
00:57:08 Like, he plays quarterback really well.
00:57:10 And I think when we watch Patrick Mahomes,
00:57:12 that's the gift of him is you watch that quarterback
00:57:15 documentary and he throws an interception,
00:57:18 and right away he's like, they're sitting on me.
00:57:21 Like, he knew it right away.
00:57:23 And he knew what the solution was.
00:57:25 That, to me, is quarterback.
00:57:26 Yes, he has all the other things that
00:57:28 make him a whole other level.
00:57:29 But if he didn't have that aspect,
00:57:32 he would just be another talented guy.
00:57:34 So the reason I brought that up was not
00:57:36 to just use your time to peddle my own theories
00:57:39 and see if you can back them up or not.
00:57:41 It's to note that in his analysis of Drake May
00:57:44 during the McAfee show, Draft Spectacular,
00:57:46 Bill did exactly that.
00:57:48 Makes all the throws, didn't say anything about accuracy
00:57:50 or decision making, which isn't to ask you what Bill thinks
00:57:52 or what he feels or to ask you to speak for him.
00:57:54 But it strikes me as curious because he also
00:57:57 highlighted the inexperience, which is just a fact.
00:57:59 Like, he's made 23, 24 starts.
00:58:01 You need to see more than that.
00:58:03 But what do you personally feel of a guy that's
00:58:06 got that talent and sounds like Devin,
00:58:07 like the maturity process and the decision making--
00:58:09 and James, you brought this up first, actually--
00:58:11 will be the check downs?
00:58:12 Will that be a sign of progress for whatever
00:58:14 you know about Drake May, that he's
00:58:15 making the right decision, kind of resisting the urge
00:58:18 to show off the arm, which we all saw,
00:58:20 which Bill talked about, and reinforces those weaknesses
00:58:23 of, OK, he's willing to commit to the decision making
00:58:25 part of this, even as a rookie who might be forced
00:58:27 into a tough situation?
00:58:29 I think you learn it.
00:58:31 It's not something that you have to know completely right away.
00:58:34 I think that's a part of coaching and developing
00:58:35 players.
00:58:36 And that's why I say I always lean
00:58:38 to the direction of letting these guys sit and learn.
00:58:41 And like I said, go against the first team defense
00:58:44 throughout practice the entire year.
00:58:46 They're going to be throwing all different sorts of things
00:58:48 at you.
00:58:48 You learn to read all sorts of coverages, blitzes,
00:58:51 changes, and protections.
00:58:52 You get more comfortable with it.
00:58:54 These guys don't have to walk into an NFL building
00:58:57 and know everything.
00:58:59 If they do, that's great.
00:59:00 You can help the team win, a la CJ Strive.
00:59:02 That's a one-off.
00:59:04 Not many people are going to walk in and take
00:59:06 the league by storm.
00:59:07 I know everybody's expecting Caleb
00:59:08 to do something like that.
00:59:10 He has a great situation around him.
00:59:11 Maybe he will.
00:59:13 Maybe he won't.
00:59:14 But for all these guys, it's a learning curve.
00:59:16 You don't have to know it now.
00:59:17 You can fix the footwork.
00:59:18 You can fix reading coverages.
00:59:20 It's all about them learning and willing to go out there
00:59:23 and embrace it.
00:59:25 Like I said, you can escape the pocket sometimes.
00:59:27 You can do all the fancy stuff.
00:59:29 You can throw 80 yards down the field.
00:59:30 Nothing wrong with that.
00:59:31 But how consistently can you get the coverage right
00:59:34 and get the ball out of your hands in two seconds?
00:59:37 I think that's the number one thing.
00:59:39 I would be interested, too, to see what Bill
00:59:43 said about the other quarterback.
00:59:44 I didn't pay attention as closely.
00:59:46 But I felt like on social media, right away,
00:59:50 as soon as the pick came in, and it was like,
00:59:53 the guy compares himself to Josh Allen.
00:59:55 I don't see that.
00:59:55 His footwork is--
00:59:57 I felt like everybody was like, Bill hates Drake May.
00:59:59 He doesn't like--
01:00:00 I was like, yo, Bill's been criticizing
01:00:02 every single draft pick.
01:00:04 He starts off and he says like one or two--
01:00:07 it was a team meeting.
01:00:08 I was like, he says a couple of things that do well.
01:00:10 And then it was just like, but if they don't do this,
01:00:12 they don't do that.
01:00:13 They got to do this.
01:00:14 So I just felt like he was very authentic.
01:00:17 And I loved it from a fan standpoint of,
01:00:21 I don't really know what I'm watching
01:00:23 when I watch the quarterbacks.
01:00:25 I don't fully understand that.
01:00:26 So now as I watch these guys and I
01:00:29 can try to remember back to what Bill said,
01:00:31 if I'm a fan of the Bears, or I'm a fan of Washington,
01:00:34 or New England, and I'm watching these picks that we just
01:00:38 got in the top three, I now should be vividly remembering,
01:00:42 OK, Belichick said his footwork's sloppy.
01:00:44 All right, the commentator, the broadcaster
01:00:47 might show in a replay of his toe is pointed the wrong way.
01:00:51 Like, dang, Bill kind of said that.
01:00:53 Hey, Bill might have said about Jaden Dams,
01:00:54 he'll have to figure out when to tuck the ball and run,
01:00:57 when to stay in the pocket.
01:00:58 And oh, man, I remember.
01:01:00 So that, to me, was a unique thing
01:01:02 about having Bill on there and not just saying,
01:01:04 this guy's great.
01:01:05 He does this.
01:01:06 He does that.
01:01:06 But actually going and having cut ups and film ready of,
01:01:10 this is what this guy does really well.
01:01:12 This is why he's the number one, two, three pick in the draft.
01:01:15 But this is also what this guy's going to need
01:01:17 to do to be successful in the NFL.
01:01:19 And I think that's what he kind of put out there for Drake May.
01:01:22 But I thought it was cool because he put it out there
01:01:24 for every single player that got drafted.
01:01:26 And whenever he had the cut ups ready for him.
01:01:29 Yeah, and that's totally fair, right?
01:01:30 Like, what does it matter if it's removed from the context?
01:01:34 This wasn't analysis in a vacuum.
01:01:35 It was specific to Drake May, but it's
01:01:37 within the context of a show.
01:01:38 If he was same balance, negativity, positivity
01:01:41 with every prospect, well, then that's
01:01:43 just how he did it for everyone.
01:01:44 It wasn't unique to Drake.
01:01:47 It also speaks to the authenticity part, right?
01:01:48 Like, I think you guys have both succeeded well
01:01:51 in your post-playing careers because there
01:01:53 are guys who just want to get up there and compliment.
01:01:55 And then there are guys who just want to get
01:01:57 a little bit more.
01:01:58 And then there are guys who just want to get
01:01:59 a little bit more.
01:02:00 And then there are guys who just want to get
01:02:02 a little bit more.
01:02:02 And then there are guys who just want to get
01:02:04 a little bit more.
01:02:05 And then there are guys who just want to get
01:02:06 a little bit more.
01:02:07 And then there are guys who just want to get
01:02:09 a little bit more.
01:02:09 And then there are guys who just want to get
01:02:11 a little bit more.
01:02:12 And then there are guys who just want to get
01:02:13 a little bit more.
01:02:14 And then there are guys who just want to get
01:02:15 a little bit more.
01:02:16 And then there are guys who just want to get
01:02:18 a little bit more.
01:02:18 And then there are guys who just want to get
01:02:20 a little bit more.
01:02:21 And then there are guys who just want to get
01:02:22 a little bit more.
01:02:23 And then there are guys who just want to get
01:02:25 a little bit more.
01:02:26 And then there are guys who just want to get
01:02:27 a little bit more.
01:02:28 And then there are guys who just want to get
01:02:30 a little bit more.
01:02:30 And then there are guys who just want to get
01:02:32 a little bit more.
01:02:33 And then there are guys who just want to get
01:02:34 a little bit more.
01:02:35 And then there are guys who just want to get
01:02:37 a little bit more.
01:02:37 And then there are guys who just want to get
01:02:39 a little bit more.
01:02:40 And then there are guys who just want to get
01:02:41 a little bit more.
01:02:42 And then there are guys who just want to get
01:02:43 a little bit more.
01:02:44 And then there are guys who just want to get
01:02:46 a little bit more.
01:02:46 And then there are guys who just want to get
01:02:48 a little bit more.
01:02:49 And then there are guys who just want to get
01:02:51 a little bit more.
01:02:52 And then there are guys who just want to get
01:02:53 a little bit more.
01:02:54 And then there are guys who just want to get
01:02:55 a little bit more.
01:02:56 And then there are guys who just want to get
01:02:58 a little bit more.
01:02:58 And then there are guys who just want to get
01:03:00 a little bit more.
01:03:00 And then there are guys who just want to get
01:03:02 a little bit more.
01:03:03 And then there are guys who just want to get
01:03:04 a little bit more.
01:03:05 And then there are guys who just want to get
01:03:06 a little bit more.
01:03:07 And then there are guys who just want to get
01:03:08 a little bit more.
01:03:09 And then there are guys who just want to get
01:03:10 a little bit more.
01:03:11 And then there are guys who just want to get
01:03:12 a little bit more.
01:03:13 And then there are guys who just want to get
01:03:14 a little bit more.
01:03:15 And then there are guys who just want to get
01:03:16 a little bit more.
01:03:17 And then there are guys who just want to get
01:03:18 a little bit more.
01:03:19 And then there are guys who just want to get
01:03:20 a little bit more.
01:03:21 And then there are guys who just want to get
01:03:22 a little bit more.
01:03:23 And then there are guys who just want to get
01:03:24 a little bit more.
01:03:25 And then there are guys who just want to get
01:03:26 a little bit more.
01:03:27 And then there are guys who just want to get
01:03:28 a little bit more.
01:03:29 And then there are guys who just want to get
01:03:30 a little bit more.
01:03:31 And then there are guys who just want to get
01:03:32 a little bit more.
01:03:33 And then there are guys who just want to get
01:03:35 a little bit more.
01:03:36 And then there are guys who just want to get
01:03:37 a little bit more.
01:03:38 And then there are guys who just want to get
01:03:39 a little bit more.
01:03:40 And then there are guys who just want to get
01:03:41 a little bit more.
01:03:42 And then there are guys who just want to get
01:03:43 a little bit more.
01:03:44 And then there are guys who just want to get
01:03:45 a little bit more.
01:03:46 And then there are guys who just want to get
01:03:47 a little bit more.
01:03:48 And then there are guys who just want to get
01:03:49 a little bit more.
01:03:50 And then there are guys who just want to get
01:03:51 a little bit more.
01:03:52 And then there are guys who just want to get
01:03:53 a little bit more.
01:03:54 And then there are guys who just want to get
01:03:55 a little bit more.
01:03:56 And then there are guys who just want to get
01:04:02 a little bit more.
01:04:09 a bunch of guys who dominate OTAs.
01:04:12 You guys write about them nonstop.
01:04:14 This guy's phenomenal.
01:04:15 And like, I just always be like, no one cares.
01:04:18 It's so irrelevant other than do you know
01:04:21 what you're supposed to do so when real football
01:04:24 starts, you can go do that.
01:04:26 Because like, I watch guys come and train
01:04:29 into OTAs and have some of the best OTAs.
01:04:32 And I was like, this guy's going to start this year.
01:04:34 And then second week in training camp,
01:04:36 it's like, is this guy still on the team?
01:04:37 I mean, he hasn't done anything.
01:04:39 So yeah, I thought OTAs was exactly
01:04:43 what James explained earlier.
01:04:45 It was a great time to laugh and joke.
01:04:48 I still remember, it might have been my rookie year
01:04:51 to be done with mini camp OTAs, all of that.
01:04:54 We come out and we do a relay race.
01:04:57 It's Brandon Dedrick, Kyle Love, Vince, and Jerrod Warren.
01:05:05 This is the 4 by 100 team.
01:05:08 And it's like, you guys got to run under, I want to say,
01:05:12 maybe it's like 49 seconds, something like that.
01:05:15 And that'll get us and we'll be done for practice.
01:05:19 And now you're sitting there, you're like, damn.
01:05:22 How's this going to go?
01:05:23 And Jerrod Warren, we called him Money.
01:05:26 Money starts it off, comes out the gate, and I'm like, oh!
01:05:30 Big boy's rolling.
01:05:32 Big dude, yeah.
01:05:33 Gives it to Dedrick, Dedrick runs, and then the last two,
01:05:37 Kyle and Vince, are like, that's where you're like,
01:05:42 I don't know.
01:05:43 And they get this baton.
01:05:46 And I mean, love rolls, and then Vince gets it,
01:05:50 and Vince just strides it out.
01:05:52 And they run maybe two seconds faster than the time.
01:05:57 And everybody goes nuts.
01:05:59 We're done, we're done for the spring, off to training camp.
01:06:02 And that, to me, was a cool just kind of introductory,
01:06:06 all right, this is what the NFL's like.
01:06:08 Great bonding time.
01:06:10 Nobody really cares how many balls you caught
01:06:12 or how many interceptions you got.
01:06:14 Just come back and do it when real football starts.
01:06:16 But that, to me, was like James said,
01:06:19 if you could have a good session and a good spring,
01:06:22 it just carries you over into training camp.
01:06:24 It's a good feeling about you.
01:06:26 You just didn't want to have too many days
01:06:28 where Bill came in and was just like, this is bad, guys.
01:06:31 This is bad football.
01:06:32 We're dropping balls.
01:06:33 You got to have some of those days,
01:06:35 but you just don't want a majority of those days
01:06:37 going into training camp.
01:06:38 - Right, yeah, growth might not be linear,
01:06:40 but if over all the days, you have more good days than bad,
01:06:43 you can kind of trust that guy.
01:06:45 Is there a position, because when you start thinking like,
01:06:48 this guy crushed OTAs and the media is loving up on him,
01:06:50 I first think of receivers.
01:06:52 Now, a defensive guy might say,
01:06:53 don't pay attention to the receiver.
01:06:54 But is that kind of what you're talking about?
01:06:56 Like, it doesn't matter until they get jammed
01:06:57 in the second week of practice.
01:06:59 - I mean, 2022, how many deep balls did we complete?
01:07:02 In practice, in OTAs?
01:07:03 - Oh, they're going to throw the ball down the field this year.
01:07:06 This is going to be electrifying.
01:07:08 I was like, we're in shorts and a t-shirt.
01:07:10 Guys are making one-handed catches.
01:07:13 And I was just like, let's take it easy on these guys.
01:07:17 Like, let's-- guys have told in practice,
01:07:19 like, let's not dive on receivers' legs.
01:07:21 Let's stay up.
01:07:23 And it was like, we always get like three receivers
01:07:26 every spring that are going to be like first team all pros.
01:07:28 [laughter]
01:07:31 - Yeah, it's definitely receivers, number one.
01:07:33 I'll tell you firsthand, we had countless guys
01:07:36 that show up during OTAs, have a field day,
01:07:38 and then training camp comes around,
01:07:40 you have the physical part of football gets implemented,
01:07:43 then they kind of disappear, they make a play here or there.
01:07:45 And, you know, that's about it.
01:07:47 So, yeah, number one is the receiver.
01:07:49 That's their time to shine, though, during OTAs.
01:07:51 You can't touch them.
01:07:52 They throw on the ball 99% of the time.
01:07:54 So you're going to get a ton of opportunities to make plays.
01:07:57 - Yeah, and those twitchy edge guys.
01:07:58 Like Josh Uccia, I think, has seven packs a day.
01:08:00 - Yeah, that too.
01:08:01 [laughter]
01:08:04 - Well, I always laugh because those guys,
01:08:06 they'll all complain.
01:08:07 And I would tell them, like, you guys set the tempo.
01:08:11 If the defensive line slows down,
01:08:12 then the offensive line will come.
01:08:14 I said, you guys complain about each other,
01:08:15 and then you all go out there and you block each other
01:08:18 and you rush like we're in full pads.
01:08:20 I said, and then the head coach has to come in
01:08:22 and literally tell everybody, hey, we got to take it easy.
01:08:25 I said, the coach is telling y'all to take it easy.
01:08:27 That's not supposed to happen.
01:08:29 But, and I think that's a newer thing.
01:08:30 When I first got in the NFL, OTAs were a joke for the line.
01:08:34 They would take two steps, three steps, and just stop.
01:08:37 And that would be it.
01:08:38 And Vince would tell me, he'd be like,
01:08:40 man, these guys doing all that right now,
01:08:41 it don't matter, we'll see what they do
01:08:43 when I stick my hands in their throat.
01:08:45 [laughter]
01:08:47 That, to me, I was like, that's a real defensive lineman.
01:08:49 Like, he's telling you, I don't care.
01:08:51 Like, Logan Menkens wasn't blocking people hard in OTAs.
01:08:54 When training camp came, he was killing you.
01:08:57 Like, that's the mentality of those guys that,
01:08:59 the rest of the stuff is nowadays, is like,
01:09:01 all right, the media's here today.
01:09:03 I want to make sure they write something good about me.
01:09:07 Like, that's the difference, I think.
01:09:08 Everybody has a platform.
01:09:09 - Giving a crap about what we think, but I get it.
01:09:12 It sounds like permission for me to take a daiquiri
01:09:14 to my first OTA practice.
01:09:16 Just got to sit back.
01:09:17 - Hey, man, you do what you got to do
01:09:18 to keep getting those paychecks.
01:09:20 - Yeah, man.
01:09:21 It's hard to evaluate, honestly.
01:09:24 - All right, we'll get you out on this real quick.
01:09:26 You know, we talk a lot about Drake.
01:09:28 We talk about the receivers.
01:09:29 We're going to talk about all those players
01:09:30 we just mentioned in OTAs,
01:09:31 because that's the calendar.
01:09:33 That's what we do this time of year.
01:09:35 Who's a player that each of you think, for the Patriots,
01:09:38 not getting a lot of love now,
01:09:39 probably won't in the next month or two,
01:09:41 that has a real chance to kind of break out in a way
01:09:43 that's genuinely surprising?
01:09:44 Not 12th in the list of 20 players
01:09:46 who could break out this year,
01:09:47 but like, actually can do it,
01:09:49 and we're not really talking about.
01:09:51 - That's tough.
01:09:53 Somebody that--
01:09:54 - I think I know Dev's got--
01:09:55 - Not a big one.
01:09:56 - He followed you around like a puppy
01:09:57 for all of his rookie season,
01:09:59 and he got hurt last year,
01:10:00 so we're not talking about him.
01:10:01 - I mean, I do think he's one of the guys--
01:10:04 - You go first.
01:10:06 - I do.
01:10:07 I think Marcus Jones is a guy
01:10:08 that kind of has been forgotten.
01:10:11 Even, like, I saw so many people,
01:10:12 like the Patriots should draft Cooper Dejean
01:10:15 because his return ability.
01:10:16 I'm like, well, Marcus Jones,
01:10:18 like, two years ago, was, you know,
01:10:21 his unbelievable return.
01:10:23 He was, like, second team or first team all pro or something.
01:10:26 I was like, he's pretty good.
01:10:27 Like, he's going to be healthy this year.
01:10:29 So I just think--
01:10:30 I think it's going to be interesting
01:10:31 how their corner situation works out.
01:10:33 Who starts opposite Gonzalez?
01:10:35 Do they want John Jones to still play outside?
01:10:38 And is that free up Marcus Jones
01:10:39 and now start in the slot?
01:10:41 So he's a guy I've always been a fan of.
01:10:44 I think he's one of those young guys
01:10:45 that I could tell right away he was hurt.
01:10:48 He knew everything.
01:10:50 He was asking questions.
01:10:52 So you just knew, like, all right,
01:10:53 well, we'll see when he gets out there.
01:10:54 And then when he got out there, it was like,
01:10:56 oh, this guy's twitchy, he's fast.
01:10:58 And then once he got out there with pads on,
01:11:01 and you were like, oh, he likes tackling.
01:11:03 He's hitting people.
01:11:05 I was like, oh, this guy has a chance
01:11:06 to be a pretty good football player.
01:11:07 So I am. I'm excited to see him.
01:11:09 And I think the other guys, I want to see Doug
01:11:12 take that next step to being one of the best players
01:11:15 at his position in the league.
01:11:17 Because I think between him and Pep being there,
01:11:19 I think they're going to have--
01:11:20 they have a chance to have one of the best
01:11:22 tandems in the league.
01:11:24 They just got to continue to be consistent.
01:11:27 And James talked about it earlier.
01:11:28 I think those two guys have special abilities
01:11:31 to have those plays that are like, wow.
01:11:33 So I think if they could just--
01:11:35 could just have a straight line of consistency
01:11:38 and then the splash play, consistent splash play,
01:11:41 I think they have a chance to make their defense special
01:11:45 just having those two guys be elite studs this year for them.
01:11:49 Under the radar player for me, I'm going to go on a limb
01:11:51 and say my guy Tyquan Thornton.
01:11:53 Just because he's--
01:11:54 I know they have a very deep receiver room,
01:11:56 different body types.
01:11:57 But he's the one guy that sets himself apart as far
01:12:00 as the speed.
01:12:00 You got a new offensive coordinator, new head coach
01:12:03 and everything.
01:12:03 So you get a fresh start, clean slate.
01:12:05 I heard he put on low weight.
01:12:08 My dog wasn't-- probably like 160 soaking wet.
01:12:11 So he put on a few pounds.
01:12:13 So I want to see him come out here, compete.
01:12:15 Because he's not just fast.
01:12:17 He has the quickness.
01:12:18 He can get in and out of his breaks.
01:12:19 That's something I try to stress to him for a little bit
01:12:21 of time.
01:12:21 I was there when I'm like, dude, when
01:12:23 you step in front of somebody, they're
01:12:25 going to fear your speed.
01:12:26 But you can get in and out of your cuts.
01:12:28 You're not Tyreek Hill, but you can get out of your cuts
01:12:31 well enough to threaten all these guys
01:12:34 running any route you want.
01:12:35 So that'll be my under the radar guy.
01:12:37 A guy who's not so under the radar,
01:12:38 I think Hunter Henry is going to have a big year this year.
01:12:41 David Njoku had a huge year, almost 900 yards last year
01:12:44 under Alex Van Pelt. So the tight end position
01:12:46 is going to be used pretty heavily.
01:12:48 Hunter, I know he got banged up some last year.
01:12:50 But he's a mismatch.
01:12:52 When he's on, he's a tough guy to stop.
01:12:54 He's a tough guy to bring down.
01:12:55 So I think he's a guy that'll have
01:12:57 a big year for this offense.
01:12:59 And Ty Kaur had a good game in 2021 against Cleveland.
01:13:02 Yeah.
01:13:02 And he had two touchdowns in that game.
01:13:05 I'm sure the coach seen that.
01:13:07 I was 22.
01:13:08 Yeah, right when KB got hurt at the start.
01:13:10 That took that jet sweep that I think was for KB.
01:13:12 And then goes in.
01:13:13 He's the official weight, because I checked in on this
01:13:15 the other day.
01:13:16 He was 188.
01:13:17 So I don't think he's stepping in the ring anytime soon
01:13:19 at the heavyweight division.
01:13:21 That's a solid no for him.
01:13:22 188, yeah.
01:13:24 Especially at that age.
01:13:26 He was slim.
01:13:28 Yeah, up from about 180.
01:13:30 Maybe even less after some of those training camp practices
01:13:32 when you guys are quitting out 5, 6 pounds a day.
01:13:35 But yeah, we'll see.
01:13:35 I like both those picks.
01:13:37 Not that you care about what that says.
01:13:39 But Hunter Henry, too, people forget,
01:13:40 was a viable fantasy option the way
01:13:43 he was scoring at the start of last year, Philly, Miami.
01:13:46 Not against the Jets, but as the season wore on.
01:13:48 Was just like, red zone target, third down.
01:13:50 And was the only guy getting doubles until Pop Douglas.
01:13:52 But yeah, I think he'll bounce back.
01:13:54 I think those are good picks.
01:13:55 And football will be here soon enough, even if--
01:13:58 Who you got?
01:13:58 Who you got?
01:13:59 Who you got?
01:13:59 Who you got?
01:14:00 Who I got?
01:14:00 Yeah.
01:14:03 It's a good question.
01:14:04 I might have to tease it for next episode.
01:14:05 No.
01:14:06 [LAUGHTER]
01:14:08 That's well done by you.
01:14:09 I think I'm going to go Daniel Kweli.
01:14:15 People forget that he's a guy that, on a person at basis,
01:14:19 is going to get his.
01:14:20 Gets hurt last year.
01:14:21 Contract year for him.
01:14:23 He's a bit older.
01:14:24 But that interior pushed him and Barmore.
01:14:27 I think with Barmore getting more doubles,
01:14:29 he could get five, six, seven sacks this year.
01:14:32 I like it.
01:14:33 When you see Barmore in the locker room telling us,
01:14:35 send me the Dior shirt that he wore.
01:14:37 I want a free Dior shirt.
01:14:39 You know what he's going to be doing?
01:14:40 He's going to be doing that meme with just a stack of dollar
01:14:43 bills.
01:14:43 I can't hear you.
01:14:44 So I'm not doing media today.
01:14:45 I'm just trying to do an app.
01:14:46 It's going to be--
01:14:47 Give me more.
01:14:48 I can't hear you.
01:14:48 All right.
01:14:49 Devin McCourty, James White.
01:14:50 Still the best, even in retirement.
01:14:52 James, drop the name of your pod, anything you're doing.
01:14:54 Devin, do the same afterward.
01:14:55 Yes, sir.
01:14:56 Make sure you guys check out the Money Down podcast.
01:14:58 We're on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Twitter,
01:15:01 Instagram, all that stuff.
01:15:02 Got a giveaway going on right now for a signed football.
01:15:05 So make sure y'all enter that.
01:15:07 Now I'm on Big 10 Network as well and Sirius XM.
01:15:10 Man's doing everything, man.
01:15:12 He's a walking man right there.
01:15:13 And he's a husband and a father.
01:15:16 I'm not doing anything.
01:15:17 I'm just relaxing right now.
01:15:18 Daddy Day Care down in New Jersey.
01:15:20 We're not coming up the mall.
01:15:20 That's what I'm about to go do right now,
01:15:22 pick up the kids from school.
01:15:24 Well, stop coming to Celtics games.
01:15:25 I saw you at game two, the only game they lost to James
01:15:27 in Miami Heat.
01:15:28 I promise, James, we wouldn't talk about the Heat.
01:15:30 But--
01:15:30 It's all right, man.
01:15:31 Blame Mr. Kraft.
01:15:32 I was supposed to come home.
01:15:33 He invited me to the game.
01:15:34 You don't say no to RKK.
01:15:36 RKK invites you.
01:15:38 You go.
01:15:39 Oh, are we going to see you guys for Tom's celebration,
01:15:42 you think, the 12th?
01:15:43 Yeah, I'll be there.
01:15:44 All right, cool.
01:15:46 We'll definitely be there.
01:15:47 Yeah, all right, good.
01:15:48 We'll see you there.
01:15:48 Thanks again, guys.
01:15:49 Still the best.
01:15:50 Later, guys.
01:15:51 Good to see you.
01:15:52 All right, wrapping up as we do once a week here
01:15:54 with the Male Fans segment.
01:15:55 Jordan Boss is back.
01:15:57 Still a door tester, yeah?
01:15:58 Yep, still on the dot.
01:16:00 Excellent.
01:16:01 So Jordan has a question, which as you know,
01:16:03 if you've been listening to this segment, first of all,
01:16:05 he's asking that question because he donated to Boston
01:16:07 Children's Hospital.
01:16:08 Second of all, I'm going to read him his own question,
01:16:10 then let him answer his own question,
01:16:12 and then I will go on from there.
01:16:14 And I think it's a good one because you DMed me actually
01:16:16 last week, and we ran out of time around the draft, which
01:16:19 tends to happen.
01:16:20 But I think the new one puts us looking forward
01:16:25 in a manner that's not quite training camp.
01:16:27 But before we get to surprise cuts,
01:16:28 you've got Patriots veterans who were on notice.
01:16:31 So you asked exactly that.
01:16:32 Which Patriots veterans got put on notice after the draft?
01:16:35 And your answer would be what?
01:16:36 I mean, I think it's a couple for sure.
01:16:38 I think you look at-- they attack the quarterback room,
01:16:40 the receiver room, and the offensive line.
01:16:42 And I think those positions are the most competitive positions
01:16:45 on this team.
01:16:46 And I think those are the ones that are under fire right now.
01:16:49 So you look at it, Juju Smith-Shuster,
01:16:50 I just don't see him making the team at all.
01:16:52 I think that's just going to be--
01:16:54 I think they're looking for a trade part,
01:16:55 but I think they're just going to cut him.
01:16:56 You look at all the videos and Instagram stories
01:16:59 that have come out the past two, three weeks about--
01:17:03 everyone, like Pop Douglas, Osborne, Kendrick Bourne,
01:17:06 you don't see Juju out there.
01:17:07 I know he's older, but I don't know
01:17:09 if you can even play anymore.
01:17:10 That might even end up being a retirement, potentially.
01:17:13 But I think he's on the hot seat.
01:17:15 Taekwon Thornton, I mean, it's year three.
01:17:18 You've got to put up some numbers.
01:17:19 But I don't think he's even going to get that opportunity.
01:17:22 I think Bailey Zappi, I don't even
01:17:24 want to say his name because that's just obvious.
01:17:26 You're just going to trade him for a seventh round pick
01:17:29 in 2030 or something like that.
01:17:30 Because Joel Milton's getting those third team reps.
01:17:33 Bailey Zappi's getting--
01:17:34 That sounded personal for a second,
01:17:35 like Bailey had dated an ex-girlfriend of yours.
01:17:37 I'm glad you pivoted to something more professional.
01:17:40 It's not even the Bailey Zappi.
01:17:41 It's the Bailey Zappi fans.
01:17:42 It's just like, come on now.
01:17:43 Everyone that said, oh, draft Marvin Harrison Jr.
01:17:46 and start Zappi.
01:17:47 I'm like, do you want to make everyone upset?
01:17:51 That was the thing I must have missed at.
01:17:53 Sadly, it was, yeah.
01:17:54 It's like the following part of Twitter, where it's not for you,
01:17:57 it's whatever.
01:17:59 But I think it's Zappi, Juju, Thornton,
01:18:01 and then I think it's the guards.
01:18:03 I think it's everyone that Belichick drafted.
01:18:05 I know that you and Doug said this last week where it was,
01:18:07 hey, maybe Elliot Wolfe doesn't like Moffy or Jake Andrews
01:18:13 or maybe Cole Strange.
01:18:14 They're like, you know what?
01:18:15 You've been undersized for the last three years
01:18:17 and you're injured every year and we don't trust it.
01:18:20 So I think the guards, I think Juju, Taekwon,
01:18:23 and I think Zappi are the ones that are most
01:18:25 likely to be on notice.
01:18:28 I think that's spot on.
01:18:29 And when you hone in specifically on the draft,
01:18:31 seven out of those eight draft picks were on offense.
01:18:34 That means they're going to replace some guys who
01:18:36 are currently on offense.
01:18:37 And I think you hit the right names.
01:18:38 Bailey Zappi's a trade candidate.
01:18:40 You've got five quarterbacks in there.
01:18:41 That is, as I wrote the other day,
01:18:43 violating some fire codes probably in Gillette Stadium.
01:18:46 Juju just doesn't make sense.
01:18:47 This is a team that's following the Packer way, which mandates
01:18:51 after you get younger, you then play the kids.
01:18:53 And so even if that's not Taekwon Thornton,
01:18:57 it'll be Jalen Polk or Javon Baker.
01:18:58 And then after them, it would be a guy
01:19:00 who's in his second or third year, a la Taekwon Thornton,
01:19:02 not Juju Schuster, who by all accounts is pretty watched.
01:19:05 I will throw one more name in there,
01:19:07 specific to the offensive line, because you
01:19:09 hit the right ones, Jake Andrews, Tony Omafi,
01:19:11 Siddy Sal.
01:19:12 Cole Strange is another one to watch for me.
01:19:15 Now, obviously, they would need a replacement at left guard.
01:19:18 But you'll remember that back in that 2022 draft, all of us
01:19:20 going WTF.
01:19:22 Like that was one of the first steps
01:19:23 we had done in this podcast.
01:19:25 We all saw a left guard at a Chattanooga.
01:19:27 I don't know exactly who would replace him,
01:19:29 but Nick Leverett was one of their later signings
01:19:31 for agency.
01:19:32 Again, it was a backup in Tampa Bay.
01:19:34 But if they feel comfortable enough,
01:19:35 this new regime with him, that's basically
01:19:38 not just a receiver, a quarterback,
01:19:40 and an offensive lineman.
01:19:41 That's the whole 2022 draft.
01:19:43 Marcus Jones is the only one left.
01:19:46 Yeah, it's something where it's like--
01:19:49 because I didn't think about this.
01:19:50 I was like, why are they drafting
01:19:51 more interior linemen?
01:19:52 We have enough of those guys.
01:19:54 And these guys, they don't sound-- maybe Wallace,
01:19:56 but they don't sound like they're projecting
01:19:57 at a tackle position.
01:19:59 Like Layden Robinson doesn't sound
01:20:00 like he's going to be a tackle.
01:20:02 But then you're like, well, it's because LD Wolf was probably
01:20:05 in that draft from being like, I cannot wait to get my shot,
01:20:07 because these guys are out the door.
01:20:08 So for me, it's like, you know what?
01:20:10 They're starting fresh, which I really like.
01:20:12 I mean, I would have loved them to get a number one wide
01:20:15 receiver.
01:20:16 I feel like everyone was, go get me,
01:20:17 IU, get me one of these guys.
01:20:18 And I really want to know what that asking price was.
01:20:21 There's no way they wanted the third pick of the draft
01:20:22 for one of these guys.
01:20:23 So I really want one of those guys.
01:20:25 But now that they're not getting that,
01:20:26 they get pivoted to, all right, we're
01:20:28 going to play the young guys.
01:20:28 And obviously, that means Juju's out the door, for sure.
01:20:31 Yeah, and I looked on defense, because I
01:20:33 wanted to have a non-obvious answer for you.
01:20:35 But at some point when you're looking at a roster where
01:20:38 in a couple months, everyone on the beat
01:20:39 is going to do their 53-man roster projections,
01:20:42 it's not going to quite be a circle on top of a circle.
01:20:45 But it'll be a Venn diagram where
01:20:47 there's very little space on the outside of as far as what
01:20:49 I wrote versus what Mark Daniels wrote versus what
01:20:52 anybody else on the beat wrote.
01:20:54 So it's interesting to follow.
01:20:55 Defensively, though, I would say, again,
01:20:57 guys that you're targeting who might be a little bit older
01:21:00 are at positions with better depth.
01:21:02 And they added Marcellus Dial, who
01:21:03 I don't know if he's going to necessarily play right away.
01:21:06 He's a six-round pick.
01:21:07 Most six-round picks get cut.
01:21:09 But some of the backups near him--
01:21:11 Sean Wade, I think, has run out of lives
01:21:13 as the fifth corner on this team.
01:21:15 I told you.
01:21:16 Alex Austin's in there.
01:21:17 But how much pressure on a guy that
01:21:19 knows he has to earn his job every single year anyway?
01:21:22 And then the linebacking core is what it is.
01:21:23 So it's difficult to find--
01:21:25 I think they've got the right pieces in place.
01:21:27 But your mindset is the right place.
01:21:29 It's guys on offense.
01:21:30 And then it's guys who are going to age out faster than not.
01:21:34 And if they don't make a trade, though, as far as Juju or Zappy
01:21:36 goes, I'll be fine with that so long as they meet
01:21:39 kind of a roster cut deadline.
01:21:41 You can have more competition in camp.
01:21:43 If Juju's got anything, might as well bring the best out of him
01:21:45 or try to do that now.
01:21:46 Or are you in a rush to deal either him or Zappy?
01:21:50 Yeah, I mean, I just--
01:21:53 I don't want to see Juju on the field.
01:21:55 Because like you mentioned, this year,
01:21:56 they're not going to be successful this year.
01:21:58 Knock on wood.
01:21:59 But they're not going to be a team.
01:22:00 So I want to look at the end of this season and say, all right,
01:22:03 Drake is the guy.
01:22:04 Or Drake is progressing.
01:22:05 Or hey, Pop had a great year to jump from his rookie season.
01:22:09 Or hey, Kendrick Bourne looks back.
01:22:11 Or DeJuan Baker looks like a true beast out there,
01:22:15 whatever it's going to be.
01:22:16 So Juju is kind of pointless.
01:22:18 It's almost like the Denver win last year.
01:22:20 It's like, this was a pointless win.
01:22:21 We got nothing from this.
01:22:23 Like, Juju on the field--
01:22:24 if he scores a touchdown from Jacoby Brissett,
01:22:27 does that help the 2025 Patriots?
01:22:28 Not even close.
01:22:29 It probably hurts them, right?
01:22:30 So for me, I want him out the door.
01:22:32 One thing I was reading earlier today,
01:22:35 I think they just signed Joey Slice kicker.
01:22:36 So maybe Hotzi, Chad Ryland, if you have another shaky camp,
01:22:41 I'm just getting rid of you.
01:22:42 Or pick the next guy that's in the USLFL
01:22:46 or whatever the new XFL is called.
01:22:48 Pick the number one kicker from that league and bring him over.
01:22:51 So I think he might be on the Hotzi, not just the draft,
01:22:52 just because you had a horrible year last year.
01:22:55 And kickers are one of those--
01:22:56 I always said, kickers in the NFL
01:22:58 are almost like fantasy defenses.
01:23:00 Or kickers, you're going to take one or two.
01:23:01 And then after that, if someone's on a bye,
01:23:03 just replace them.
01:23:05 Ride the hot end.
01:23:07 It's interesting, too, because Sly filled the last open roster
01:23:09 spot they had.
01:23:10 And they have rookie minicamp coming up, which just
01:23:12 gets way into the weeds, right?
01:23:13 I think most football fans are washing their hands right now
01:23:16 unless you have a dynasty draft or something and say,
01:23:18 I will see you in July when there's more football to be
01:23:20 reported on and actual practice is going on.
01:23:22 But what I would say is those rookie minicamps are not just
01:23:25 for the draft picks.
01:23:26 It's not for Drake May, hey, play catch with Jalen Polk
01:23:28 and Javon Baker.
01:23:29 It's for dudes like, once upon a time, Malcolm Butler,
01:23:33 come take a flyer.
01:23:34 Gunnar Olszewski, come take a flyer.
01:23:36 Visit if you impress us.
01:23:37 You can get a roster spot.
01:23:38 And the Patriots, at least now, are confident enough
01:23:41 that if that happens--
01:23:42 and again, it does often enough where
01:23:44 you keep extending these invites to other players who didn't get
01:23:46 drafted or signed since--
01:23:48 that they would have to cut someone.
01:23:50 And of course, being a team coming off of a 4-13 season,
01:23:53 there are guys to cut.
01:23:55 But to me, it expresses a confidence in the roster
01:23:59 from the regime as it is now that that
01:24:02 might be a little bit higher than what
01:24:03 we have on the outside, which doesn't mean they're right.
01:24:05 Patriots were more confident than most of us
01:24:07 were on the outside, even those of us who said they might go 9
01:24:09 and 8, 10 and 7.
01:24:10 But it's an optimism that I think they know and believe,
01:24:14 at least in their young guys.
01:24:15 So we just haven't seen a whole lot of it.
01:24:16 And those are the guys we're going to see
01:24:17 a lot more of going forward.
01:24:18 Yeah.
01:24:19 And just preaching the competition side of it
01:24:21 that Wolfe and Mayo have preached the past couple--
01:24:24 definitely the last couple of days,
01:24:25 ever since Mayo got here.
01:24:27 I think it's one of those things that puts every veteran
01:24:29 on notice, saying, hey, it's a competition.
01:24:31 It's not how much money you're making.
01:24:32 Because think about it.
01:24:33 For the most part, none of these guys
01:24:35 got any money from Mayo or Elliott Wolfe,
01:24:37 besides Unwayne and Kyle Duggar.
01:24:38 So besides those guys, they did pretty good.
01:24:40 But name any--
01:24:43 I mean, Juju's a great example, because he got paid.
01:24:45 And he's been horrible.
01:24:46 But Devontae Parker was one of those guys where it's like,
01:24:48 hey, we didn't give you this contract.
01:24:50 We have no problem cutting you or trading you
01:24:51 to the Eagles for a bag of balls.
01:24:53 So I think that competition line really kind of shows you,
01:24:56 hey, whether you're an undrafted free agent,
01:24:58 seventh round pick, tight end, whoever
01:25:01 it's going to be, you have to work to make this team
01:25:03 and get some playing time, which I love.
01:25:05 All right.
01:25:06 One last note, and we'll get you out of here.
01:25:08 And this is putting you on the spot a little bit,
01:25:10 is on day three of the draft, Elliott Wolfe and Jarrod Mayo
01:25:15 called and involved Drake May in a way that was like, hey,
01:25:18 here's what we're thinking.
01:25:19 Here's who we like.
01:25:20 What do you think?
01:25:21 Which just shocked me, like, back further into my seat
01:25:26 than I ever expected.
01:25:27 Because first of all, of course, that's
01:25:29 as far away from Belichick roster-building philosophy
01:25:31 as you will find.
01:25:32 Second of all, May has not taken a snap yet.
01:25:34 And he's already being, quote unquote, "involved,"
01:25:36 to a small degree, in these decisions.
01:25:37 So I would say, Jordan, as someone
01:25:40 who is new on this podcast, if you
01:25:42 were to be involved in the roster-making,
01:25:44 building decisions on this podcast,
01:25:45 have guests that come up, who would you
01:25:47 like to see as the Drake May to my Elliott Wolfe and Jarrod
01:25:50 Mayo come on as we build out this podcast?
01:25:52 Guess in the next couple of weeks
01:25:54 as I start to have a draft here further into the offseason.
01:25:57 I mean, it's a pretty long list.
01:25:59 You could go current players, former players, coaches,
01:26:02 whatever it's going to be.
01:26:04 For me, I mean, think Reece, Tom Brady.
01:26:07 I mean, that's probably not going to happen.
01:26:09 I don't know what his name is.
01:26:11 It's the receivers assistant coach
01:26:13 that came over from Washington.
01:26:14 I think he was quality control coach with Washington,
01:26:16 or maybe he was receivers coach.
01:26:17 Either of these?
01:26:18 Yeah, I'd love to get him on.
01:26:19 Because not only is he going to tell us,
01:26:21 what does he want out of receivers,
01:26:23 but give us some Jalen Polk background,
01:26:25 give me his background.
01:26:26 So he's one of those guys where I'm like,
01:26:28 you had some influence on that pick with Jalen Polk.
01:26:30 You're going to be here.
01:26:31 That's probably the heaviest position
01:26:33 that we're looking at.
01:26:34 Going into camp, we're looking at receivers.
01:26:36 Like that's an opposite trait of me.
01:26:37 But that connection's going to be so important.
01:26:39 So I'd like to get him on.
01:26:41 Let's see what he has to say.
01:26:43 I think Tyler Hughes would be honored
01:26:45 to be on this podcast.
01:26:46 I've never spoken to him one-on-one in person.
01:26:48 He was not here last year.
01:26:49 He was grunt in 2022 as a guy who's even been a head coach
01:26:52 at the high school level and I think small college level.
01:26:55 But we will get to know Tyler Hughes a lot more.
01:26:57 I don't expect he will be on,
01:26:59 but we might make a phone call or two.
01:27:00 Who knows?
01:27:01 It's a whole new era.
01:27:02 He's probably pretty free.
01:27:04 Like I don't think he's going to be at the Tom Brady roast
01:27:05 in a couple days.
01:27:06 So I think he'd be someone that would be one of those,
01:27:09 all right, let's see what you have to say kind of guys.
01:27:11 - Yeah.
01:27:12 All right, Jordan,
01:27:13 thank you for donating to Boston Children's Hospital.
01:27:14 Thank you for coming back on the podcast
01:27:16 and thank you for participating here.
01:27:18 A couple of questions, one of yours and one of mine here
01:27:20 as we wrap up another Mailfans segment.
01:27:22 - Of course, happy to be on.
01:27:23 (upbeat music)
01:27:26 (upbeat music)
01:27:28 (upbeat music)
01:27:31 (upbeat music)
01:27:34 (upbeat music)
01:27:36 (upbeat music)
01:27:39 (upbeat music)
01:27:41 (upbeat music)
01:27:44 [BLANK_AUDIO]

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