John Swinney announces his bid for leadership of the SNP

The Scotsman

Head of News Dale Miller speaks to political editor Alistair Grant following John Swinney's announcement that he will run for leadership of the SNP

Transcript

00:00 (upbeat music)

00:02 - Hello and welcome to the Scotsman's Politics Show.

00:11 It's a big day in the world of Scottish politics.

00:15 My name's Dale Miller, I'm head of news at the Scotsman.

00:17 Now I'm joined by our political editor, Alistair Grant,

00:21 who's coming live from the grass market.

00:23 Alistair, you've just heard from John Swinney

00:26 and the leadership bid from him is on.

00:28 What do they have to say?

00:30 - Yes, well after a lot of shadow boxing

00:32 over the last couple of days, particularly yesterday,

00:35 John Swinney, the former deputy first minister,

00:37 has come out and confirmed that he will run

00:40 for the SNP leadership.

00:41 He launched his leadership campaign

00:43 just a couple of hundred yards from where I am right now

00:46 in the grass market, very much with a message

00:49 that he is the man of the hour, if you will,

00:51 that he can offer that stability for the SNP.

00:54 He's got the experience, he's obviously got decades

00:57 of frontline political experience in his back pocket.

01:00 He's been deputy first minister,

01:01 he was Nicola Sturgeon's trusted deputy,

01:04 a close ally of the former first minister.

01:06 Before that, he was a finance secretary

01:08 under both Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon.

01:10 And before that, people might remember

01:12 that he actually led the SNP between 2000 and 2004.

01:16 So he's very much pitching himself

01:18 as someone who has the experience to unify the party,

01:22 to bring the party back together again.

01:24 He was accepting today that the party

01:25 is not cohesive at the moment,

01:27 that it's not as unified as it could be.

01:29 And he is saying that he is the man to do that.

01:31 I think interestingly as well,

01:33 making it clear that he is not a caretaker figure.

01:35 He's not intending to be an interim SNP leader

01:37 or first minister.

01:38 That's what some of the reporting around his initial,

01:42 when John Swinney was initially suggested

01:44 as a kind of potential future leader.

01:47 There's a lot of talk that he could be a caretaker figure,

01:49 just kind of taking care of the party

01:50 while it sorts itself out.

01:52 He's very much saying he's in it for the long haul.

01:55 So he will lead the party

01:56 beyond the 2026 Holyrood election.

01:59 And the other very interesting point

02:01 is that he was saying that he wants Kate Forbes

02:04 to play a key role in his team.

02:06 He wants her to have,

02:07 I think as he called it, a senior position,

02:09 a senior important position in his team.

02:11 So very much wants to bring her into the fold.

02:13 We're expecting to hear from Kate Forbes later on today,

02:17 confirming whether or not she's going to run

02:18 for the SNP leadership.

02:20 She is the other favourite in this race.

02:22 If she doesn't run,

02:23 it could very much be a John Swinney coronation.

02:26 And I think just finally,

02:26 what I'd say is that it was notable in the room today,

02:29 just how many senior figures in the SNP were there

02:32 for John Swinney's leadership launch.

02:34 There's Shirley-Anne Somerville.

02:36 There's people like Angus Robertson, the Culture Secretary,

02:38 Jamie Hepburn, the Independence Minister,

02:40 Marie Gujran, Fiona Hyslop, the Transport Secretary.

02:44 He really does have the backing

02:45 of a lot of the senior figures in the SNP

02:47 and is seen as the hierarchy's choice, if you will.

02:52 - Alistair, I'm fascinated by him saying

02:54 that he wants to come into the role

02:57 of potentialist maybe on 2026.

02:59 Does that come as a surprise to you,

03:01 given his experience, his age,

03:03 the fact that he stepped back

03:04 when Nicola Sturgeon did as well?

03:06 Did that come as a shock for him?

03:08 - I think on the one hand,

03:09 it's probably a surprise to him

03:10 that he's entering the frontline free again.

03:13 He's been a backbencher now for about a year,

03:16 very much was seen as someone

03:17 whose political time had perhaps passed,

03:19 maybe someone who would potentially be looking

03:21 to step down in 2026.

03:23 That's obviously not the case anymore.

03:24 But I think it's not a surprise in the sense

03:26 that if he's coming out for the SNP leadership contest

03:29 and to be, by default,

03:31 the next First Minister of Scotland,

03:32 he has to say that he's in it for the long haul.

03:35 If he said that his intention was to make way

03:37 for someone else in 2026,

03:39 that would immediately put him on the back foot.

03:41 He would be a bit of a lame duck First Minister.

03:43 He has to go for this or not.

03:46 He can't do a kind of halfway house.

03:48 So I think on the one hand,

03:50 it's what he has to say.

03:51 I'm sure it's what his intention is.

03:53 On the other hand,

03:53 I'm sure he did not see this coming a week ago.

03:56 - And Alistair, just on Kate Forbes,

04:00 I mean, you and I were discussing off air

04:02 about what would be a good enough position

04:04 potentially for her to accept the Cabinet role and not run.

04:07 What do you think?

04:09 She's due to speak this afternoon,

04:10 so we'll know then either way,

04:11 but what do you think will be enough

04:14 and will it be a good move having her in Cabinet?

04:17 That's the way it plays out.

04:19 - I think if John Swinney is wanting to present himself

04:21 as a unity candidate,

04:22 as someone who can bring the SNP together

04:24 at a time when the party is divided,

04:26 when there are divisions that have come to the surface,

04:28 then yeah, I think it is a good move

04:29 to bring her into the Cabinet

04:30 and to bring her back into the fold.

04:32 She's been on the back benches

04:33 in Holyrood for a while now.

04:35 I think there's been a lot of voices

04:36 both within and outside the SNP

04:38 who have considered that a waste of her talents.

04:41 She's seen as someone who's got a lot of political ability,

04:44 a lot to offer.

04:45 Even her critics would say

04:47 that she's someone with a strong political intellect.

04:50 But also, she's someone who has a wing of the party

04:54 that want change, that are a bit,

04:56 well, not even a bit,

04:56 quite very much dissatisfied

04:58 with the direction the SNP has taken in recent times

05:01 and who do not want continuity.

05:03 So if John Swinney wants to bring the party back together,

05:06 I think it very much is a good move

05:07 to try and bring Kate Forbes back into the fold.

05:10 As to what position that is,

05:11 he was actually asked at the press conference today,

05:14 potentially as a Deputy First Minister

05:16 to be his deputy.

05:17 He was keeping his cards close to his chest

05:19 saying he doesn't want to get ahead of himself.

05:21 You know, he's not going to confirm anything

05:23 like that at the moment.

05:24 But I think it would have to be a senior role.

05:26 And John Swinney saying that today,

05:28 that he envisions a very important senior role for her.

05:31 So I would think something like a senior cabinet position,

05:34 perhaps Deputy First Minister.

05:36 But yeah, she would be offered something

05:38 that she could get her teeth into, put it that way.

05:40 - Well, look, what's the spice

05:43 if you want to say exactly,

05:44 or read exactly what John Swinney said

05:47 and what it means for the SNP going forward,

05:50 please visit scotsman.com for all the latest

05:52 with the live blog running.

05:54 You'll have all the very latest analysis

05:57 and coverage in the wash up of Swinney's declaration.

06:00 And you'll be able to learn first what Kate Forbes decides.

06:03 Please follow us on Facebook, Instagram and X

06:07 and go out and buy a copy of the paper tomorrow.

06:09 We'll have full coverage from another big day

06:12 in Scottish politics.

06:14 Alistair, thanks for you

06:15 and thanks to everyone else for joining us.

06:17 (upbeat music)

06:21 (upbeat music)

06:23 [MUSIC]

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