Kiya Middle Class Logon Kay liye Siyasat Main Ana Asaan Kaam Hai? Expert opinions
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Kiya Middle Class Logon Kay liye Siyasat Main Ana Asaan Kaam Hai? Expert opinions
Kiya Middle Class Logon Kay liye Siyasat Main Ana Asaan Kaam Hai? Expert opinions
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00:00 Zubair, in Pakistan, we see that politics is a special kind of people who have capital, lineage, patronage,
00:08 who have a strong background. Only those people can do it.
00:12 You came into politics, into a community which was very difficult to settle there.
00:18 In hindsight, you are seeing that you have been a victim of that culture,
00:21 but for middle class people, working class people, who come from the corporate sector,
00:26 who want to bring the experience of the world to politics in Pakistan, is it an easy task?
00:31 I think it is very difficult. One example is, if you take Miftah Ismail, or my example,
00:43 we went from a non-political background, professionally, professional background,
00:47 he also had a lot of experience, whatever it was.
00:50 If you count Asad Umar, if you don't do party politics, so he also went from, and I thought,
00:57 these were good additions of middle class, educated people, for them it was like,
01:03 if they can succeed, then we are also encouraged, because in Pakistan, obviously,
01:10 people raised questions on politics, that they are the same families, they are the same,
01:16 and they get the same opportunities again and again, and new people don't come,
01:20 clean people, educated people, who understand, but the end that happened, if you see,
01:26 Sir, why did this end? I actually want to know what the problems are,
01:29 because a lot of people must be thinking, what happened today?
01:32 Why, because a new political class comes, why can't it sustain?
01:36 What are the two or three big reasons?
01:38 See, I can talk about myself, or about my party,
01:46 one is very simple thing, Maria, it is not possible that any political party,
01:51 whether in Pakistan or somewhere else, that it can never make a wrong decision,
01:56 can never take a wrong step, can never give a bad performance,
02:00 this is not possible. So, when you are in a party, you have to toe the party line,
02:06 as much as possible, even if you don't want to, I don't want to take names,
02:10 nowadays we have a very educated person in PMLN, he is defending everything,
02:15 I see and laugh, later I say, at least stop a little, but what happened in the last two years,
02:24 that was not defendable, so first, like for example, a vote of no confidence,
02:30 you know who was backing, so when you are making such a big compromise,
02:34 you will be surprised, what happened, we were standing at the forefront of a civil and supremacy war,
02:40 and were making the most sacrifices, now you have done this,
02:43 then the way the elections, Punjab assembly dissolved, 90 days,
02:48 I think serious, grievous constitutional violation, and everyone did it together,
02:55 now you raise a little voice, that what is this, how will you justify?
02:59 How will you justify? The political dissent, Zubair sahib, is there no room in political parties,
03:04 or only a few people have that right, over the period of time,
03:07 because they have more associations, or relations are closer,
03:10 only they can say something different, and that can be heard,
03:14 the one who is not on the pay grade, has no place.
03:18 Actually, Maria, let me also clarify and give credit where it is due,
03:24 when I went to politics, PMLN, I did not take money, nor did I take my own ring,
03:30 and I did not have any political experience,
03:32 so after 2-3 months, some people told me that you talk a lot in meetings,
03:37 and this is not a good thing, so I did introspection,
03:42 so I thought that I have nothing else, no political experience, no ring, no money,
03:49 so if I do not speak, people will ask me, who is he?
03:55 What does he bring to the table?
03:58 So to that extent, I was given that much space,
04:03 and that is obvious, with respect, you do not expect that everything you say should be accepted,
04:09 but I think that at that time, at the level of Mian Nawaz Sharif and Maria,
04:15 it was allowed to debate, at the level of Mian Shahbaz Sharif, there is no such scope,
04:21 no scope, so in the last 2 years, if you see performance wise,
04:25 you have put 84 people in the cabinet, I can say this right now,
04:30 whether any economist or finance person agrees with me,
04:34 those 16 months were the worst period in Pakistan's history.
04:39 Sir, because of these things, people do not answer your message,
04:43 because of these things, people do not answer your message.
04:47 Yes, they say, okay, talk a little, why do you go to such an extent?
04:51 But I think, I, I Maria, I will say one more thing,
04:56 which Mustafa was also talking about and trying to understand,
04:59 but if you see, the country which has completely changed its course of history,
05:05 there were big explosions in it, they do not happen like this,
05:08 if you see, the Eastern European countries, the collapse of the Soviet bloc,
05:13 or the collapse of the communist regime, or the collapse of the Berlin wall,
05:17 they did big things, it does not happen that, okay, give this person a ticket and do this,
05:22 and this is pro-establishment, this is anti-establishment, the system collapses,
05:26 and then you can hope for a change.
05:28 Okay.
05:29 By doing a little, a lot, by talking slowly, nothing happens.
05:33 Okay, let's move a little further, because social media has a very big role in Pakistani politics,
05:38 how much do you follow social media? I have seen tweets,
05:41 there are abuses, jokes, trolling, you get slapped,
05:44 so how seriously do you take social media, how much time do you spend on Twitter?
05:48 No, I follow a lot of social media, I tweet on social media,
05:53 I never go down, because here, if you write As-salam-o-Alaikum,
05:57 people look down and say, I don't understand, this brother has troubled you,
06:02 if someone, here, like you are saying, it is extreme,
06:07 so the problem is that social media is also very divided,
06:12 but social media has a lot of benefits,
06:15 in social media, I have said that if you cannot tolerate criticism,
06:21 then you cannot be in the public office.
06:23 One more thing, I feel that the leaders of Tariq-e-Insaf are also hostages of their social media,
06:29 or when they make decisions, social media also reverses those decisions,
06:33 especially in Tariq-e-Insaf.
06:35 See, the reason for that is, one is their follower, their voter, they are young,
06:41 and they take high moral ground in their opinion,
06:46 their voters and their leaders have to listen to them.
06:50 See, till the time your communities are not democratic,
06:55 these are personal properties,
06:58 like Zubair sahib said, when he dissented, no one tolerated him,
07:02 he came from some other background,
07:04 he does not know that even before dissenting,
07:07 the right person has to work by beating or beating,
07:11 otherwise the next person gets angry, so nothing is left.
07:14 So the issue is that their young lot is very vocal,
07:21 and they give their opinion,
07:23 and this opinion, especially the chemistry of Tariq-e-Insaf,
07:30 their DNA is in their social media,
07:36 and they have also forced politics on social media.
07:39 But is there a place for democracy in that?
07:41 See, there is no place for democracy on social media.
07:43 No, the expression of your voters on social media,
07:46 is there a place for democracy in the ideology of that community?
07:49 See, the problem is that when you reflect on society purely,
07:54 you see, there is a reflection of society in political communities,
07:57 people have taken positions,
08:00 now it is either this or that, there is no middle ground.
08:04 Now these communities, the old communities,
08:07 which are now part of the government,
08:10 the PTA, the Papers Party, the Noon,
08:13 the problem I see,
08:15 I see that they are not able to understand,
08:18 that even if they want to take power,
08:21 they cannot save their politics.
08:23 This used to happen earlier,
08:25 I was born in a political family,
08:27 I have seen how it is in elections,
08:30 but the way it has happened this time,
08:33 that after 5 hours of polling being closed at night,
08:36 the trend of voters has changed,
08:38 and I think we are living in a trichotomy of fraud.
08:43 In every place, your institutions are playing a fraud game,
08:51 you are playing a fraud game with your own people,
08:54 you are playing a fraud game with the law,
08:56 and no one is going to listen to you.