NBC Sports Boston’s Tom E. Curran returns to break down what we learned from Jerod Mayo’s press conference at the owners meetings Monday and debate whether the Patriots should trade down from No. 3 overall.
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You can also listen and Subscribe to Pats Interference on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, and at CLNSMedia.com two times a week!
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Football season may be over, but the action on the floor is heating up. Whether it’s Tournament Season or the fight for playoff homecourt, there’s no shortage of high stakes basketball moments this time of year. Quick withdrawals, easy gameplay and an enormous selection of players and stat types are what make PrizePicks the #1 daily fantasy sports app!
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SportsTranscript
00:00 [MUSIC]
00:10 All right, Pat's Interference in the Road, Monday night, Orlando, Florida.
00:16 Owners Meetings, Tommy Curran, NBC Sports Boston.
00:18 You follow him, you listen to him, you watch him.
00:20 And now you're going to do a little bit of both here.
00:22 YouTube, Apple, Spotify, you know the deal now.
00:25 We have a quick episode here today.
00:26 There's no 15 off the field.
00:28 We've got 20 to 25 with Tommy.
00:30 We have four to five takeaways.
00:31 I'm gonna set a timer, old school.
00:33 We're just gonna go through it.
00:34 >> Okay, I like it.
00:35 >> Yeah, but we were just talking off air.
00:37 Initial impressions, cuz Jarrad talks today.
00:39 He talked for 30 minutes.
00:41 And there was a lot there.
00:42 >> There was, there was a lot of meat on the bone.
00:44 And I think that a couple of the things that I would circle back to and
00:47 what I wrote about was the fact that he underscored the backbeat to his comments
00:52 were oftentimes, this is gonna be a while.
00:56 This is gonna take some time.
00:58 You need to have patience with us.
01:00 I don't know how I'm gonna do as a head coach.
01:02 I don't know how Elliot's gonna do as a GM.
01:05 Hopefully well.
01:07 Everything's about drafting, developing, playing the board or selecting a player.
01:13 There's very few definitive things because there is so much TBD.
01:17 And as Jarrad pointed out, it is his first time around.
01:21 It's his first time as a head coach.
01:23 So that's where they are.
01:26 We could talk forever about whether that's where they should be and
01:30 whether they should have opened up a search.
01:31 But this is where they are.
01:33 This is what they did.
01:34 There is a learning curve.
01:36 There is a complete dearth of talent on the team.
01:41 >> In case you missed it, yeah.
01:42 >> So as I said, in what I wrote, Rome wasn't built in a day.
01:46 And it also wasn't crumbled in a day.
01:51 It took some time for the Patriots to get to this point.
01:53 It's gonna take some time for them to get out.
01:55 But they're also, to use another geographical reference, Siberia.
02:00 And that was my other takeaway, is that the Patriots are acknowledging that they
02:04 are a little bit radioactive for
02:06 players who might be looking around about where they wanna go.
02:09 And Calvin really is a good example, Andrew.
02:11 I talked to- >> Well, let's start the clock,
02:13 because you're hitting on my first takeaway, which has three sub bullet points.
02:17 >> There's so many little logistical things here that I didn't understand.
02:21 Go. >> That's okay.
02:22 So he had a game plan going in, right?
02:25 And we could go in and parse words that they tip his hand about the quarterback
02:27 plan in the draft in number three, and we'll get to that in a bit.
02:30 I think it's best to understand, like rewatching a game,
02:33 what was their game plan going in, right?
02:35 Like that's their mindset.
02:36 You understand why they said the things after, called the plays they did,
02:39 when you understand where they started from.
02:41 Then you figure out how they ended up where they did.
02:43 In my mind, he had three things he wanted to get across.
02:45 One of which you said already, this is a long rebuild, right?
02:47 And they need players who are magnets, that's a quote,
02:50 have some gravity to them, the guys wanna come play with them.
02:53 They're open to offers at number three.
02:54 And the craft, which he volunteered five times,
02:57 had given their full support in spending, in tools, in investment.
03:02 No one asked about this stuff, but
03:03 was something clearly drawed when we get across.
03:05 >> Yeah, and I think that still a five time mention in 30 minutes doesn't outweigh
03:10 the number of mentions from two to six on Felder and Maz, or Jones and
03:15 Mega from two to six, or any of the other radio shows, or
03:18 any of our television shows on NBC Sports Boston.
03:23 Anything that you disagree with, though?
03:24 He wanted to get those across.
03:25 >> No. >> Did I miss a big one?
03:26 >> No, I think those were definite talking points.
03:29 But I also think he was a game plan coach today, in that he understands,
03:33 they're gonna try and take me in different directions.
03:35 I'm gonna react to that.
03:37 And I think, as well as I know him, he is precise and likes to plan, but
03:42 he also likes to be reactive.
03:45 >> Yeah. >> He doesn't wanna over plan and
03:46 wants to be able to be organic.
03:48 And I think that he did that to an extent as well.
03:51 But what I did think was good was he didn't get himself out in the ocean and
03:57 keep talking, and then get himself overboard.
04:02 He had succinct answers, not deep on what the details were, but
04:07 he had succinct answers that he closed the book on and moved to the next thing.
04:10 But a lot of the answers were TBD, we're not sure, could do this, could do that.
04:15 And I don't blame him because that's how you have to be when you are dealing with,
04:19 in some ways, Andrew, if I explain.
04:21 >> So, and that brings us to number three, right?
04:23 Cuz we're talking about the quarterbacks.
04:24 Tell us about Drake May, what do you think?
04:26 No ceiling, right?
04:27 But also be mindful of the floor, not as much as Jane Daniels.
04:30 And we are considering JJ McCarthy, who's one of five,
04:33 including Caleb Williams and Mystery Man, probably go next.
04:35 >> Probably go next.
04:37 >> I think so, they haven't talked to Penix at all.
04:38 I don't think they've even looked at the state by the recording on this.
04:43 They've obviously watched the state, but the point is they've not been with him.
04:45 >> I would say Penix, not Nix.
04:46 >> That would be my choice.
04:48 But I think as far as the people that they've shown up at pro days,
04:51 the combine visits, etc., it's been more Nix than Penix.
04:54 But the point being, what I liked there was,
04:57 unlike when he boxed himself into a corner, we're gonna burn some cash.
05:01 We're going to take a player to premium position,
05:03 you put the puzzle pieces together, as he told Steve Burden on his introductory
05:06 press conference, this was, no, all options are on the table, which he told you,
05:10 and Mike Giardi, and Mike Reese, yesterday, Sunday when we all got in.
05:13 But I think we're smart, because A, even if you know you're taking a quarterback,
05:17 just invite the godfather offer to show up your doorstep anyway.
05:19 Like, we might do this, we like a lot of quarterbacks, we're open for business.
05:24 Whereas, had he been acting in the same way he had earlier,
05:28 it's not in the best interest of the team publicly to limit your options, right?
05:30 You wanna have everything on the table and
05:32 let people know that's how you feel, whether you do or don't.
05:34 >> Yeah, and I think that, again, allowing for who he is, and
05:38 we can have conversations about whether he was ready necessarily for
05:41 everything that's coming at him.
05:42 He's seeing 90 mile an hour pitching when he's not used to it.
05:45 He's used to quick slants and zooms.
05:48 >> How fast is quick slants?
05:49 >> I mean, we're throwing 70 feet.
05:50 >> Yeah, batting cages like- >> Responsibility wise,
05:54 yeah, he's literally, in terms of responsibility, just show up and
05:58 be amusing, give us some details and information that we don't know.
06:02 But now he's in charge of a $6 billion team.
06:06 So the burn some cash, I continue to, even if I didn't know the guy,
06:10 I'd say, you know, I know, and everybody in the market knows the way in which
06:14 that burn some cash, those three words were delivered, were tongue in cheek,
06:19 as he stood up, joking as, hey, let's be personable in the interview.
06:24 And he didn't understand that they were gonna be used as a cudgel.
06:27 I think it's disingenuous to continue to use them as a cudgel, but
06:31 they ain't going away, that's me.
06:32 I'm not gonna mention the burn some cash stuff because I know the guy was joking.
06:37 He did say we're gonna spend, he's continued to say we're gonna spend, but
06:40 burn some cash is gonna be a fix to his epitaph until the Patriots succeed.
06:45 >> And that's not even all his fault, right?
06:47 Like he made a mistake, but it's amplified by the history and
06:50 the lack of spending over the last ten years, which is not to assign blame,
06:53 Bill or Kraft for even getting into that conversation.
06:55 It's just saying the situation he stepped into was more sensitive when it came to
06:59 spending.
06:59 And then when he delivers the news, everyone's wanted to hear for so long, and
07:03 then they're not following through.
07:05 >> Yeah, cuz he's not attuned to the conversation in the market because he's
07:09 been a linebackers coach slash de facto defensive coordinator.
07:12 So he's not listening to the conversation about when are they gonna spend?
07:16 >> Yeah. >> And again,
07:17 the conversation has, to me, so drastically pivoted to the crafts of
07:22 the ones who don't spend from Bill having been the one.
07:26 >> Right. >> That it is stupefying.
07:28 I mean, how many times can they say, we never told Billy couldn't spend.
07:32 What they had in Bill was a head coach who might have been titled with a buck
07:37 than they are, which was a dream come friggin true.
07:41 I mean, Bill wasn't not paying DeAndre Hopkins because Robert Kraft didn't say
07:44 not to.
07:45 He wasn't paying DeAndre Hopkins because he didn't want to pay a wide receiver
07:49 when we practice sometimes, and he thought it might be over the hill.
07:51 >> And he thought he was good enough to play without him.
07:54 They had Devante Parker.
07:55 >> They could do fine with $22.5 million against the cap for Tom Brady.
08:00 This is all we can do in 2020.
08:01 We're gonna move on from a guy who can go and walk in eight months later and
08:05 win a Super Bowl or whatever it was in Tampa Bay.
08:07 We don't want you because 22.5 million on the cap society.
08:10 >> Yeah, all right, time's up, next point.
08:12 And this brings us to a place where you are on one side of the bridge and
08:15 I'm on the other.
08:17 The situation whether to draft the quarterback, but
08:19 it's not so much where you stand on that bridge.
08:22 It's that, Gerard Mayo says a quarterback can walk across here because quote,
08:27 he feels it's 100% ready the roster and the staff to support a rookie quarterback.
08:33 His comments after that mostly pointed to the staff and
08:35 it's not lost on him that their offensive roster is what it is.
08:39 Because when he was then asked, he was gonna start a left tackle.
08:41 He's like, well, we signed Chucks over there now we'll kind of see might be on
08:45 one end we might be right tackle and that's again the roster he has.
08:49 But it's interesting to me that he was confident we can address quarterback,
08:53 receiver and left tackle in the draft.
08:54 As something we have to do in the first place, but
08:58 also we're confident enough to bring that quarterback into what obviously is
09:00 a situation I don't think anyone else is saying, yeah, they're ready to bring in
09:03 a kid.
09:05 I don't think any, I think most people are lobbying for
09:08 them to bring in a kid so you have to be ready.
09:11 >> Yeah, well ready how that I mean the roster.
09:14 >> They're not gonna sit there and say they're I'm telling them,
09:17 my opinion is they are not ready to bring in a quarterback because they're so
09:21 bad they're gonna have to sit them.
09:23 They're not gonna have the time to bring them up to speed.
09:25 They're going to be behind a learning curve.
09:27 And as a result, you're gonna waste one year of his rookie contract.
09:30 We can go further on on all that but people think the Patriots are ready and
09:33 I don't see how Gerard Mayo could sit at a conference press conference today and
09:38 say we're not ready to support a quarterback.
09:40 He has to say.
09:41 >> Well, what he could say is a version of what Bill often said, right?
09:45 And this isn't to- >> Are you ready to support a quarterback?
09:48 What are you gonna say?
09:48 >> The roster today is not the roster we're gonna have at the start of
09:50 training camp.
09:51 We'll find out when we get there.
09:52 We're planning to improve.
09:53 We're always looking to get better trades for agency in the draft.
09:56 We're a month away from the draft.
09:57 We could make some trades.
09:58 We might sign some players.
09:59 And he said some version of that, right?
10:01 Like he intends to explore all three avenues to roster building.
10:04 In my mind, especially the premium positions, two are generally blocked off.
10:08 Like receivers, corners for the most part,
10:10 quarterbacks certainly don't hit for agency.
10:12 You're not trading them unless you're taking on a large salary and
10:14 that's some sort of defect in the product.
10:16 So then it's just the draft.
10:17 But then you're asking all of these kids, not just the quarterback, but
10:20 the receivers and left tackle to come in and start all together.
10:24 Like that's the tough part.
10:25 >> Well, I think the support he's talking about when he does talk about the coaching,
10:29 can you support it?
10:29 And he's gonna look at it and say, well, yeah,
10:31 I mean, we have players at these positions.
10:33 Is it going to be as well orchestrated and supportive to this position as it is,
10:38 say, in Philadelphia for Jalen Hurst?
10:42 >> Yeah. >> He was a middle league quarterback,
10:43 generally speaking, but had an MVP season a couple years ago cuz he had
10:46 an unbelievable support.
10:47 No, it's not.
10:48 Well, we're going to have humans at those spots.
10:51 And so of course, we're gonna say we could support it.
10:53 But to me, the larger conversation at number three is, they're not good enough.
10:59 And the only way to get good enough is to use this once in a lifetime or
11:05 once in a generation more accurately, third overall pick,
11:10 to turn that into multiple picks, which would be, say, for instance,
11:15 with Minnesota, you get 11, you get your tackle, you get 23, you get your wide receiver.
11:21 Then next year, you have two first round picks, your own,
11:24 you're probably still not a great team cuz you had your Kobe Brissett and
11:26 whoever else fell off the quarterback tree.
11:28 Now you're in the top ten again, most likely, which is what a build will be.
11:32 You have that pick in whatever Minnesota has for next year,
11:35 cuz Minnesota had to give up another number one for next year,
11:37 which is what the asking price will be.
11:39 So now you have those four picks to address those positions.
11:43 And you have mobility with your two first round picks to do what Minnesota's doing.
11:47 You go up and you get the quarterback who turned out to be Jaden Daniels.
11:51 That everybody's turned their nose, says, it's not gonna happen next year.
11:54 What were they saying about Jaden Daniels in August?
11:56 Not much.
11:57 Now he's the second overall pick.
11:59 That quarterback will materialize.
12:00 Give yourself the opportunity to move up and you don't waste a year of a rookie
12:05 contract with Drake May, who needs polishing.
12:08 Not saying it's Drake May's fault.
12:10 He's a good player.
12:11 And if he goes to Minnesota and he has a four touchdown game,
12:15 he wouldn't have done that here.
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13:27 [MUSIC]
13:30 >> Well, let's go back to Mayo because it's interesting, your pal of mine,
13:34 Mike Jardy, texted me.
13:35 He was like, hey, what was your vibe today?
13:38 I don't think Mike knows how to use the word vibe.
13:39 What was your read on Mayo today as far as the quarterbacks go?
13:42 And I said, I think he said everything that you would wanna say if you're trying
13:46 to induce a godfather offer, understanding where I come from.
13:48 And that was a very compelling case.
13:49 You have me moving a little bit closer to your side on this.
13:52 I would just say, you're not in this spot again.
13:55 There's an excellent quarterback class that we were saying at the end of 2022,
13:59 Caleb Williams, Drake May, take him.
14:00 Do you think whether Gerard and Elliot, and
14:02 Elliot's really making the call before being honest, tip their hand in any kind
14:07 of way as to being closer to the case you're making or the way I feel?
14:11 >> I think they're edging closer to where I am.
14:15 And I don't think that I haven't been told that and
14:20 I've got no indications they are.
14:22 But I think the default continues to be quarterback.
14:26 >> Yeah. >> Publicly, privately,
14:28 no matter how you slice it, the Patriots believe having a good quarterback and
14:32 a good coach is the way to get back where they were.
14:35 >> It's the truth.
14:35 >> To a degree it is.
14:38 To a degree it is.
14:40 The truth, as I read Andrew's well researched and
14:43 well done article that was in the Herald the other day is,
14:46 people don't understand where franchise quarterbacks come from.
14:49 Because as Andrew wrote, you have to find a top five quarterback to get there.
14:54 And then Andrew- >> He's waiting for this.
14:57 >> Used as examples of franchise quarterbacks, Patrick Mahomes,
15:02 Lamar Jackson, and I can't remember the other one.
15:04 >> Josh Allen, Joe Pirro.
15:06 >> And I'm like, hey, you didn't mention Joe Pirro in this sentence.
15:09 And I'm like, hey, that's the 32nd overall pick, the 10th overall pick, and
15:13 the 7th overall pick going to a playoff.
15:15 >> Pirro was definitely in there because I said it to you.
15:17 >> Okay, you got it to me.
15:18 >> Don't reflect me on that.
15:19 >> Three top ten picks in there.
15:21 >> He's a point.
15:22 You said top five in the story.
15:25 >> Okay. >> You said you don't find them unless
15:27 you go top five.
15:28 And none of the guys he mentioned, Jackson, Mahomes, or
15:33 Josh Allen were top five picks.
15:35 And I'm like, Andrew, you're making my point.
15:38 Listen, I wrote a story which was even more compelling than his.
15:42 I don't care what the time costs.
15:43 >> Well, hold on, cuz I- >> My story was even more compelling.
15:46 You go back to 1998, you know how many quarterbacks have won a Super Bowl,
15:50 who were taken on the top three?
15:53 Two, Eli and Peyton.
15:54 So anybody named Manning taken on the top three of the draft,
15:56 they don't win Super Bowls.
15:57 Stafford, you say, he didn't win them, he didn't even draft them.
16:01 So he's out.
16:02 >> Now he's out.
16:04 >> He's definitely out.
16:04 He didn't win them with the team.
16:05 The Patriots are drafting guy number three to go win a Super Bowl with Jacksonville.
16:10 They would be drafting him, as the Lions did,
16:12 to win a Super Bowl with them and Stafford.
16:15 So it doesn't happen.
16:17 You are just as likely, because your situation and
16:20 your team sucks, to ruin the guy as you are to get benefit from him.
16:25 So you might get Cam Newton, you might get Matt Bryan, you might get, you name it.
16:31 Look, Rex Grossman was a first round pick, he made it to the Super Bowl.
16:35 But Colin Kaepernick made it to the Super Bowl, he was a second round pick.
16:37 >> Here's the thing, I think what we're getting at here is, as a bar-
16:41 >> Situation matters more than top three picks.
16:44 >> We could quibble about three, five, or ten.
16:46 The point is the only reliable place on planet Earth,
16:47 which I've said here too many times, drink if you're listening at home,
16:50 is in that top ten.
16:51 >> No, it isn't.
16:52 >> It is, it is. >> Okay, ten, now you're at ten.
16:53 >> Right, but here's the thing.
16:55 >> Where are the top ten quarterbacks who've won Super Bowls?
16:58 >> If the bar is to win a Super Bowl, there are only, what, 40,
17:01 high 30 number of quarterbacks who've ever done that?
17:03 I don't think the goal here, obviously, is Super Bowl, but
17:06 it's regular sustained contention.
17:07 >> So DJ Stroud, you're good with, cuz that's, that's-
17:10 >> Am I good with DJ Stroud?
17:12 Absolutely.
17:12 >> Did you see him play this year?
17:14 >> Yeah, but understand that CJ Stroud or
17:16 Justin Herbert, who people are excited about.
17:19 >> Yes, they do.
17:19 >> Justin Herbert, he's one and one in the playoffs, or?
17:23 No, Trevor Lawrence is one and one in the playoffs, first overall pick.
17:27 Generally speaking, your team sucks, and even if it doesn't suck,
17:30 which Justin Herbert's doesn't, and he was taken sixth overall,
17:33 he was littered, his offense was, with talented offensive players.
17:37 Eckler, Mike Williams, Keno- >> But
17:39 you know that's not the full equation, right?
17:40 Like we heard it from- >> Of course it's not.
17:42 >> Right, it's defense, special teams, coaching,
17:44 the situation you're talking about.
17:45 My- >> If you don't have those,
17:47 you don't take quarterback.
17:48 >> You can't wait to build the house and the driveway and
17:51 pave the driveway and the garage, and then get the car.
17:55 >> Really?
17:56 Cuz the Chiefs did, and the Chiefs are the best team in football.
17:58 >> Okay, they thought they had their quarterback.
18:00 Let's stay here though, because- >> No, no.
18:01 >> No, this is a simple causation versus correlation.
18:04 I don't think it's the fact that these guys were picked in the first three or
18:08 top five that made them fail.
18:09 >> They have to choose a top five or top ten pick on a quarterback.
18:12 >> Let's say we're top ten then, that's fine.
18:13 But my point is they're at three, and
18:15 your best chance of getting a quarterback is to stay there and take one.
18:18 And if you do not fail him, which is also partly their choice, and
18:21 I think they failed in the process of supporting him, right?
18:23 Not getting Calvin Ridley, they could execute trades later on.
18:26 It's not simply that once you were picked at three or five or whatever,
18:31 you're fated then to never win a Super Bowl.
18:33 That's the correlation part.
18:34 The causation obviously is the situation.
18:37 I'm saying you need to get him in now.
18:39 You can protect him, let Jacoby take the hits in the meantime,
18:42 which would stunt his development.
18:43 But Drake May and Caleb Williams have been known for
18:46 almost two years to be guys that you can build a franchise around, right?
18:50 And we've seen the impact.
18:52 >> Well, that's what people think.
18:53 >> Right, but that's as close as you can get at this point.
18:57 And so I think it's- >> So unless you have, I would say
19:01 Jaden Daniels or Caleb Williams,
19:03 I would bet on because they are tides that can lift all boats.
19:06 I would be more amenable to either of those guys if the Patriots had
19:10 an opportunity to take them.
19:11 >> Cuz you're out of May, yeah.
19:13 >> No, out on May is an overstatement.
19:15 That's a 21 year old kid who has a lot of sloppy techniques.
19:19 I don't think when I watched him this past year, and I know it was-
19:21 >> I know, we talked about that.
19:23 >> Paint by numbers operation for him.
19:24 He's just kinda doesn't do a lot of pre-snap reading, and
19:27 that's where their offense was.
19:29 But you're gonna ask a lot of him, and you're gonna put him in a situation
19:31 similar to, not identical to, similar to Mac Jones.
19:34 Where you're gonna say, play well, be smart, make good decisions,
19:41 which may have said was the number one thing, but do it when it's a jailbreak.
19:45 And that's how you retire the progress of a player.
19:47 Again, Jalen Hurts, why is Jalen Hurts good?
19:50 Cuz he's got AJ Brown, Devante Smith, he's got an offensive line.
19:53 >> He's also got a good skillset, this is giving all, I think-
19:56 >> He's not nearly as accurate as Mac Jones.
19:59 >> I think he is.
20:00 >> Okay, you're wrong, but- >> No, it's in the numbers.
20:02 We can go to adjust and complete your percentage, average up the target,
20:05 go all the way down.
20:06 But people don't wanna care about Mac Jones or hear about them.
20:08 >> Okay, but I'm saying Jalen Hurts is an okay quarterback.
20:13 I'd like, he's a top dozen, perfect, top dozen guy.
20:16 >> First time we've agreed on a number tonight.
20:18 >> So fine, but to get top dozen performance or
20:22 even runner up MVP performance from him, which is what it was.
20:27 If you surround him with so much- >> Here's the thing.
20:29 >> Boom, you turbocharge him.
20:31 They've already screwed up in free agency.
20:33 >> Right. >> So once that happens,
20:35 you have to start, okay, we didn't get a wide receiver.
20:38 They have to start moving to finding ways to get receivers.
20:40 So I'm saying that the free agency fails moves them even further away
20:45 from being supportive enough for a top three guy.
20:49 >> The most salient point is this on my end.
20:51 If not now, when?
20:54 I'm not willing to bet on the most important part of a franchise, over the coach,
20:59 over the owner, over everything.
21:00 This is the number one option in the NBA, where you know, same thing,
21:03 top ten is the most reliable only place on planet earth to find an impact number one
21:07 on a championship team.
21:09 But the point stands nonetheless, the power of the quarterback.
21:12 I'm not waiting on a guy that I know I can get, whether it's Shane Daniels or
21:15 Drake May, and multiple people in their front office believe in those guys.
21:18 Sources have told my good colleague Doug Codd to just wait and
21:21 think if not now, because it's not gonna be free agency, it's not gonna be a trade.
21:25 You're saying Shane Daniels will just pop up next year.
21:27 And that happened with Joe Burrow four years ago.
21:29 I don't know how many quarterbacks besides him and maybe Jane Daniels who could be
21:32 a failure, right?
21:33 That we just count on to pop up because you're already locking him in as a success.
21:37 And I think to wait for the most important part as opposed to lock that in first,
21:41 then build around him, develop him in a way that you support.
21:44 You have Jacoby in the meantime to take those states.
21:46 It's one year of a rookie contract versus one year wasted for
21:49 everyone else on the roster because you just weren't ready to roll it out with
21:52 the kit.
21:52 >> I know.
21:53 >> You're not gonna, there's no guarantee to trade back up into three.
21:55 And if you do, you have two extra first round picks.
21:58 You're just giving them back up to move back up.
22:01 And that's it.
22:02 You don't know, you're being sarcastic about him a prick right now.
22:04 >> Because, say for instance, you take a chance on a Trey Lance and
22:09 he doesn't work out and you take a chance on Carson Wentz.
22:14 He doesn't work, where are you then?
22:17 You're in the Super Bowl because the rest of your team is so good that you can get
22:20 to the Super Bowl with Jaylen Hurts or Brock Purdy or Jimmy Garoppolo.
22:24 Because your team is that good.
22:25 So you build your team.
22:26 >> There's no guarantee that Elliott Wolfe is going to be the same GM as
22:30 Howie Roseman, the best GM in football going on 10 to 12 points.
22:33 Or John Lynch, not at all.
22:35 >> John Lynch was a player, God bless him.
22:37 He's done a great job, but
22:38 John Lynch was nobody's idea of the next coming of-
22:41 >> And where's your offensive line?
22:43 Are you suddenly gonna fill up those four spots?
22:45 Who's your offensive coordinator?
22:45 You're talking about Kyle Shanahan, you're talking about Doug Peterson for
22:48 a time, Nick Sirianni.
22:50 >> You're being frantic for a guy who's on solid ground.
22:52 >> I am. >> I think you know your ground to
22:53 shake.
22:54 This is bad news for AFC later.
22:57 >> This is, I mean, well, it's the missus, but I'm gonna ask you.
23:00 Actually, that's great.
23:02 >> Yeah, we'll give her five more minutes.
23:04 >> I mean, I've just made airtight point after airtight point against you.
23:09 >> You have not, though.
23:11 Like the ultimate outliers are the nine-inch team Eagles.
23:14 >> It's only two of them.
23:15 I mean, let's go to Kansas City.
23:17 That's a team that was picking 28th overall.
23:19 >> That moved up to get a quarterback in the top ten.
23:21 >> And I'm explaining it to people because that's the point.
23:25 You wait for the quarterback to fall off the quarterback tree and
23:28 the rest of the team will take care of it.
23:30 That's how it works.
23:31 It doesn't work by taking Sam Darnold.
23:33 It doesn't work by taking Zach Wilson.
23:36 It doesn't work by taking Trey Lance or Matt Jones or Justin Fields or
23:40 anybody else.
23:41 >> And you're so scared of just sitting him for a year when you have a fifth year
23:44 option to pick up down the road.
23:45 >> It's a waste because it's the most expensive position.
23:48 I would rather pick up my fifth year option on the wideout that I take this year.
23:53 Roman Dunzey or whoever else would be gone at 11 most likely.
23:56 But I would rather pick up the fifth year option on him and
23:59 keep him around for Quinn Ewers if he turns into the next genius quarterback.
24:05 >> So you're not sure that you're getting a potential franchise quarterback,
24:08 which there may be none next year.
24:10 >> You don't need a quote unquote franchise quarterback.
24:14 You make them by the rest of the franchise being really good.
24:17 >> This is a guy who covered Tom Brady for 20 years.
24:20 >> Yeah. >> It's the rest of the team that powers
24:22 him, not the quarterback.
24:24 >> Because when I watched Tom Brady, I had spent my first four years on the beat,
24:30 watching a number one overall pick get worse and worse and worse.
24:35 And then I watched the sixth round pick come in and lift all boats as Brady did,
24:41 despite the resistance to the notion that he was good in 2001.
24:45 >> Why are you looking at me like I wasn't 12 at that time saying that he wasn't
24:49 good?
24:50 Like it was my fault people are saying he wasn't good.
24:53 >> Who, Brady?
24:54 >> Brady. >> No, because you bristled to someone.
24:56 >> Well, I'm talking about the last ten years that we all watched.
24:58 >> But I watched the number one pick.
25:01 Use Tom Brady as an example.
25:02 >> No, we can't.
25:03 >> No, use Tom Brady as an example for a team that had a player parachute in and
25:10 win a Super Bowl immediately.
25:13 Because of the quarterback, because they, what do you mean stop?
25:16 You think if Tom Brady stayed in New England, he was winning a Super Bowl in 2020?
25:20 >> So we just went from 2001 to 2020?
25:22 >> No, I'm using an example of a player going to a situation that causes
25:27 the situation to improve exponentially.
25:31 And it's a veteran player going to a good situation.
25:33 Tampa won a Super Bowl because they had an infrastructure in place that only needed
25:37 Brady.
25:37 The Patriots are not in a situation where all they need is a great man.
25:41 That's not, I agree.
25:43 >> This is how it works, but I swear to God.
25:46 >> That's the point that you're making for me, is that that was a seven and nine,
25:50 eight and 18.
25:51 And what changed it was not the infrastructure, wasn't the talent already
25:54 there, it was the quarterback who came in, powered the rest of it.
25:58 >> So they should have taken James Winston.
26:02 Was James, yeah, James Winston.
26:04 >> James was still there.
26:04 >> How'd they do with James?
26:05 They took him number one.
26:06 >> The idea- >> How'd they do with James?
26:08 They took him number one.
26:09 >> We all know how James Winston was.
26:11 To me, that's not evidence that if you were taken in the top three,
26:14 you're fated to stop.
26:14 >> So he didn't develop.
26:15 >> Obviously, you're not going into a great situation.
26:17 >> What happened to Rams and Sam Bradford taking number one overall?
26:20 >> How about any quarterback aside from Dak Prescott or
26:24 anyone after the first round?
26:26 >> Russell Wilson won a Super Bowl.
26:28 >> 2012.
26:29 >> Went to two of them.
26:30 >> Yeah.
26:30 >> Yeah.
26:31 >> Yeah. >> Who was he taking?
26:32 Second round?
26:33 >> 2012.
26:33 >> Second round guy?
26:34 >> And then Dak in 2016.
26:35 >> Second round? >> If you like those odds better than
26:36 the guys in the top ten, that's good.
26:39 >> You build your team, you drop in a Brock Ferdy.
26:40 >> [LAUGH] >> Do it with a straight face.
26:42 Build the team.
26:43 >> We were talking about Drodd now.
26:45 We went completely off the rails.
26:46 >> I'm trying to help you.
26:48 >> It's not happening.
26:48 >> Well, we're gonna be talking about first round quarterback draft picks again in
26:54 2027.
26:54 >> [LAUGH] I hope not.
26:57 I'm desperate for good offense.
26:59 Final takeaway before we let you go about Drodd and
27:03 just what you heard today and what do you think it means?
27:05 >> I would say my other takeaway is that Elliot Wolfe is not a silo,
27:11 but he is the personnel corporation CEO.
27:14 I think that is very, very clear.
27:19 And I think that if Mayo could say it, he would say it.
27:26 And that is, he gets the players, I coach the players.
27:32 I'll give my input on what I like and what I don't like.
27:35 But at the end of the day, I'm gonna defer to him on what he and
27:40 the scouts think of the quarterback.
27:41 If they think, for all this conversation again,
27:46 if they think that Drake May can be worked with and Alex Van Pelt
27:50 thinks he can be worked with and Ben McAdoo thinks that.
27:53 >> I think they do.
27:54 >> Then they will both select the player.
27:57 And if somebody walks up to them and says,
27:59 we're gonna give you two first round picks, swap.
28:03 We'll give you another one next year.
28:05 They should think long and hard about it,
28:07 because they can drastically improve their entire team.
28:10 And then wait for the quarterback to fall off the quarterback tree,
28:13 because there is a quarterback tree.
28:14 >> So the last part I wanna leave from Drodd,
28:18 we should have shared more of his words rather than ours.
28:20 But, cuz he just talked today, it was a big 30 minutes.
28:24 The only guaranteed way to win is to accumulate more picks.
28:29 Now, as someone who is firmly in the draft the quarterback at three camp,
28:32 if not now, when or how.
28:33 I actually like this from him, because it aligned with everything that we know
28:39 analytically, Aaron Schatz, football outside, formerly football outsider,
28:41 said this in the podcast, is the way Bill operated.
28:44 No one is that much better at drafting players than anybody else.
28:47 It's largely random, okay, even with all the data, the research, scouting, etc.
28:51 So you might as well have more bites at the apple, throw more darts,
28:53 pick your cliche analogy at the draft to increase your likelihood of hitting on
28:58 those players.
28:59 I'm glad to hear that from Drodd, understanding at least personally,
29:01 some of the other things he said are not necessarily aligned analytically,
29:05 which I'm not strictly follow the numbers guy.
29:07 But use the tools if you have them and you know how to use it.
29:10 I appreciated him saying that,
29:12 because I think it's a smarter way to roster build.
29:14 >> I 1 million percent agree.
29:15 >> [LAUGH] >> I mean,
29:17 the logic behind drafting a quarterback at number three regardless,
29:22 and I feel like it's tending that way,
29:25 because the argument is, when are you gonna be up there again?
29:28 The argument for doing that is somewhat devoid of just plain logic in that,
29:33 because you're just saying you're at three, take a quarterback.
29:38 We're not saying this guy is a franchise quarterback, this guy individually will be
29:43 better for our team than one of the best tackles and one of the best receivers.
29:48 And another top ten player next year, because they can use that.
29:52 So that's what you're saying when you take them at number three.
29:55 And I think three will beat one,
29:56 especially if there are question marks around the one.
29:59 >> Yeah, I mean, look, I think let's assume all the players hit, right?
30:03 And we understand these are bets, so certain percentages of whether they hit or
30:06 not based on their fit, development, skill set, all of that stuff.
30:08 The quarterback hitting in a way that the upside is typically offered in the top,
30:14 whatever, is higher than if the left tackle and the receiver hit combined.
30:19 >> Nope.
30:20 >> Yes.
30:20 >> Nope. >> Yes.
30:21 >> If you use AV, approximate value from pro football reference, and
30:24 add up the quarterback.
30:25 >> What's the first word of that metric?
30:26 >> Approximate value.
30:29 >> Approximate, yeah.
30:30 It's as rough as- >> They're all approximate.
30:33 >> Incited it myself.
30:34 The point is- >> But it's very, very, very.
30:35 >> There's also- >> Very reliable.
30:36 You're not letting me finish.
30:37 >> Okay, go ahead, you're right.
30:39 >> I lost my train of thought because I'd be yelling at him, I'm not letting you finish.
30:42 >> Approximate value, they're all rough.
30:44 Tackle and receiver is worth more than a quarterback who-
30:49 >> Yeah. >> Reaches.
30:50 >> Here's the interesting thing.
30:51 With a quarterback, with Trevor Lawrence, for instance, or
30:57 even CJ Stroud to an extent, you often have to squint to see
31:03 the potential that still exists.
31:06 I mean, you're going into your fourth year of Trevor Lawrence, and you're like,
31:09 he's good, he is good, Justin Herbert, he's good, he's good, and they are good.
31:14 >> Top ten guys.
31:15 >> They are, which is why they were taken in the top ten.
31:20 But there are barriers to their success.
31:25 In Justin Herbert's case, it's been offensive line and coaching.
31:27 In Trevor Lawrence's case, it was coaching and-
31:30 >> Urban line.
31:31 >> Yeah, coaching and losing your development.
31:33 >> You have a franchise curse and
31:35 then the most bumble, the worst recent head coach in NFL history.
31:37 >> So again, you're going to a difficult situation.
31:40 We can both agree that Jarod Mayo is on a massive learning curve.
31:44 >> Yeah. >> The Patriots did not intend
31:46 to fire Bill Belichick when they entered the 2023 season.
31:51 They never imagined 4 and 13.
31:53 They never imagined moving on from Bill.
31:55 They never imagined their team under Bill getting this bad.
31:57 And I don't think anyone did.
31:58 >> No, we did not.
31:59 >> Even as the Patriots were playing in ways in 2022,
32:03 that you'd say that's not a Bill Belichick team.
32:06 You still never thought that they would lose that many games.
32:08 But they did, they found a way.
32:09 So there's a massive learning curve here that I think again,
32:14 is when you look in hindsight in 2028, that the quarterback they take,
32:18 you'll say, even if the guy's working out, even if Jarod Mayo is still here,
32:22 we'll look back and say, I was a rocky first year for Drake.
32:27 God bless him, he was able to get through it.
32:28 Good thing he had that metal and the grit and
32:30 the leadership that are arguing for his being selected right now.
32:34 >> And that's all that Elliot and Jarod are talking about, right?
32:37 Like that moxie, that leadership, that toughness,
32:39 it was the first thing Elliot said of all these guys.
32:41 That might be the best thing that helps the Patriots selecting at three,
32:45 is that it seems like best leaders and most local leaders are McCarthy and Met.
32:51 Daniels is a little more quiet,
32:54 Gable Williams is a little bit divisive seemingly, all we've seen.
32:58 So this might argue more.
33:00 These are two players, we talk about magnets, they wanna be here.
33:03 I don't think Jaden Daniels necessarily wants to be here.
33:06 >> I don't think so either.
33:07 Although that sounded very close to magnets.
33:09 >> Magnets, guys bring players.
33:11 [LAUGH] >> So.
33:12 >> Deep learning curve, agree.
33:15 Less frantic now, feeling better, feet on the ground.
33:18 I think we need a beer, cocktail party, a little bit later here at the JW.
33:22 Yeah.
33:23 >> I have to work.
33:24 Sorry if I yelled at your guy, sorry if I yelled at your host.
33:27 >> No, it's okay.
33:27 It makes more fun.
33:28 Some of the sickos like that, I think a little bit more.
33:31 Yeah, a lot to learn from Jarod today.
33:33 I thought it was good.
33:33 The learning curve is evident.
33:35 I think he is learning.
33:36 >> I learned, I taught the guy too, didn't I?
33:38 >> You did.
33:39 You taught a lot of people.
33:40 I put myself in your quarterback tree.
33:41 >> Just wait by the tree, it will fall.
33:45 The quarterback will fall out.
33:46 It might be a purdy.
33:47 It might be a purts.
33:50 >> I love all of these anecdotal outliers.
33:53 He's Tommy Kern, I'm Andrew Callahan.
33:56 We are in the basement of a JW Marriott in a conference room we should no longer be.
33:59 So we are going to leave.
34:00 Thank you for listening.
34:01 I'll be back later this week.
34:02 The ringer's Danny Kelly.
34:04 The ringer's Danny Heifetz.
34:05 A three person draft round table.
34:08 We are gonna talk to the quarterbacks later this week.
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