Podcast: Antonio Pierce, Aidan O'Connell, Tom Telesco, NFL
Las Vegas Raiders Insider Podcast, Antonio Pierce, Aidan O'Connell, Tom Telesco, the NFL Draft, and NFL Free Agency
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00:00 Hi everybody, this is Hondo Carpenter from Sports Illustrated's Fan Nation Las Vegas
00:06 Raiders Insider Podcast.
00:08 And man am I blessed today to have one of my best buds, just a tremendous writer.
00:14 He's the editor and publisher of thespun.com.
00:17 Matt Hladik's with us and we're going to be really digging in on some Raiders stuff today.
00:21 You're going to get your, your, your, your chewy, ooey gooey, your silver and black goodness
00:27 from Uncle Hondo today.
00:28 And Matt Hladik, before we get going though, I want to just take a minute and Raider Nation,
00:34 we are growing so fast.
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01:31 Matt, before we get started, give them your ex handle, would you?
01:37 Yeah, you can find me on, uh, ex Twitter, whatever they're calling it these days at
01:42 @matthaladik919, uh, M-A-T-T-H-L-A-D-I-K 919.
01:47 And I know some Raider fans have already found me and they've joined up and followed me,
01:51 which I really appreciate.
01:52 I've heard from them.
01:54 They actually said how much they really like it.
01:56 And so follow Matt on there, support them.
01:59 And we got a lot to get to.
02:00 Matt, as you know, I was at the Combine last week.
02:03 Uh, so much to get to from there.
02:07 And I have Matt on.
02:09 So Matt is one of my colleagues with SI.
02:11 I don't want everyone to think that he's not.
02:14 And, but we go back before when we were not even part of the same organizations.
02:19 He's been with me since Rutgers entered the, um, Big Ten.
02:23 So nearly close to 20 years and been, we are great friends.
02:28 And so Matt covers the NFL macroly, meaning he's a publisher that covers the national
02:35 football league.
02:36 I do it microly, which is with a specific team as a beat writer there all the time.
02:42 And so we love bouncing and talking about all things Raiders, whether it's big picture,
02:47 how something in the NFL affects the Raiders or small picture because he's up on it.
02:52 And I love having these discussions with him.
02:54 So Matt, let's get started.
02:56 The NFL to me, you know, I've been going to this for years, the Combine, what stood out
03:01 to me was the amount of people talking about the Raiders.
03:07 I was, and it wasn't the Raiders.
03:10 I've had that a lot in my five years.
03:13 It was people talking about, I had one coach tell me, uh, I loved when AP said, or I don't
03:20 remember now I was a coach or executive, but said to me, um, man, I love that AP said I
03:26 was hired to get fired.
03:27 And one thing is not going to change is who I am.
03:30 He's not handled.
03:32 The PR people are not going to handle this guy.
03:34 He's going to do what he wants.
03:36 He's going to go down guns a blazing.
03:38 A lot of people are like, I'm so happy for him.
03:41 I hope it works out.
03:42 Cause I want him to be able to show people another way like Dan Campbell has and D'Amico
03:46 Ryan's, but I wanted your thoughts, what stood out to you from a Raider perspective with
03:51 the Combine?
03:54 I think that one of the, um, one of the things that stood out was besides hearing what prospects
04:01 had to say about Antonio Pierce.
04:03 And again, you know, prospects are always going to speak well of the teams that are
04:06 interviewing them, but it did seem like they were, um, definitely jazzed up to kind of
04:11 meet with him and get to know him personally.
04:14 I thought that the Raiders just were part of that whole big quarterback buzz at the
04:19 Combine because there's just, there's so much, uh, talk about Caleb Williams and that number
04:26 one pick and you know, what a team have to trade up for one to get their guy or could
04:32 you trade up to three and then, all right, well, if you don't get one of the top three
04:37 guys who's in that next crop of your JJ McCarthy's and Bo Nix and Michael Penix and some other
04:42 guys, um, and I think that there was, you know, some buzz about the Raiders with that
04:47 because we know the Raiders are looking to add to their quarterback room and, and add
04:55 to, you know, their options to position.
04:58 And it's just a matter of how do they go about doing that.
05:01 So, uh, I definitely noticed that they were in the, um, in the, the conversations there
05:08 and I felt like, and I feel like this is almost every year.
05:11 I feel like guys are getting faster every year.
05:13 Like I know that that's only a component of the Combine.
05:17 It's not necessarily what guys put on tape or what they can do for a football perspective,
05:22 but it is one of the more recognizable things from the Combine, the 40 yard dash times.
05:26 And there were some guys who had some vintage Raiders speed, uh, out there, uh, not just
05:31 at the receiver positions, but also all over the field.
05:35 I agree with you a hundred percent, Matt.
05:37 I want to, what did you think of AP's comments that no matter where the other quarterbacks
05:42 come and they're going to get two of them, could be free agency, could be two draft picks,
05:47 whatever.
05:48 If they're going to have to beat out Aiden O'Connell, I've been banging the drum that
05:51 these guys believe in Aiden O'Connell.
05:53 They've not turned their, their, their back on Aiden O'Connell.
05:56 He made that very clear.
05:58 Did he not?
05:59 He did.
06:00 And I think that that shows a lot of confidence in your young player.
06:03 And I think like you said on the year before, Aiden O'Connell showed some promise last year,
06:08 starting for half the year, uh, after he was kind of thrown into the fire.
06:11 I don't, nobody knows just what his ceiling is as a pro yet.
06:15 You don't know if he's going to be just a high end backup, if he's going to be, you
06:20 know, a bridge starter type or a guy who can be, you know, a capable starter, um, that
06:26 you can, you know, win some games with you.
06:27 We don't know that yet, but you know, the Raiders are going to give him the opportunity
06:32 to, to beat out anybody that they bring in or, or to prove that he's capable of being
06:37 their starting quarterback.
06:38 So I think that that's smart.
06:40 You know, you, you want to keep as many options open as possible and, um, you know, you don't
06:45 want to dismiss a young player coming off his rookie season right away.
06:50 Yeah, I agree with you a hundred percent.
06:52 Um, let's now go in a little bit of a different direction, but I found it fascinating.
06:57 I thought Tom Telesco was great, uh, and all of his comments there, I think he showed,
07:03 um, he's got a lot of Dave Ziegler in him, you know, a lot of the issues in, in Los Angeles,
07:09 like being 40 million over the salary cap that wasn't on him.
07:12 That was ownership that handled that.
07:15 I think he's going to be very disciplined, but he really made points in his locker room
07:20 because I heard from multiple players that texted me that when he talked about, we got
07:25 to keep money to sign and extend our guys, I, he made a hit in his locker room and that's
07:34 a big deal.
07:35 That's a big mentality that people, I think, don't think about a general manager winning
07:42 a locker room.
07:43 Well, ideally in the NFL, you want to build up on your own.
07:47 You want to build up your own, um, draft picks or undrafted free agents or guys like that,
07:53 that you can kind of get to establish your culture and make a difference.
07:59 Uh, with the salary cap going up exponentially this year and you know, it's always going
08:04 to keep going up.
08:05 I think that that is a point that I've seen several writers raise.
08:09 I agree.
08:10 I think that it makes life potentially easier for teams that want to extend their own players
08:16 because they know that they'll have some additional cap space to do it.
08:20 So you know, I mean, the first round pick, you could, you could give them extension after
08:24 a third year.
08:25 Um, actually, well, any, any pick you can to first round pick you have a fifth year
08:30 option, but you know, so you know, after some time, if it's a guy that you want to build
08:36 around.
08:37 So I think that him saying, we're going to put aside money, not just this off season,
08:41 but in the future for our own guys, as well as outside free agents is smart because ideally
08:47 you want to build through the draft.
08:50 You want to build through those guys that you pick and you bring in, uh, supplement
08:55 them with some undrafted free agents that you bring in every year that can fill a role
08:58 or maybe you get a big fine there.
09:01 And then you want to spur the supplement it with some missing pieces in free agency or
09:06 trades.
09:07 You can't build your roster and build the support system, uh, just out of those outside
09:13 guys.
09:15 I talked with John Schneider, the GM of the Seahawks.
09:19 Most people didn't know outside of our reporting, how close Patrick Graham actually was to getting
09:24 that job.
09:26 And he talked about how impressed he was.
09:29 I'm told by someone, not Schneider, but someone else within the organization who told me they
09:34 were fighter in Pete Carroll before there was known.
09:37 And in fact, told me before Pete came out and started talking about what he wanted to
09:42 do next, um, that it was so close.
09:47 It was like literally rice paper and that he felt like the Raiders or I mean the Seahawk
09:53 organization was going to keep a very close eye on Patrick.
09:56 If this guy doesn't work out, there could be a short leash to go with Graham.
10:01 What did you think about the fact he praised Graham?
10:04 You and I've talked a lot about Patrick.
10:07 Were you surprised or does it just solidify in your mind how good Patrick Graham really
10:12 is?
10:13 No, I think it's, it's a great endorsement for him.
10:17 A great endorsement for the Raiders obviously to have him, but a great endorsement for him
10:21 too because now if he gets back on the head coaching trail next off season, he has this
10:30 got this known proven general manager at the NFL level vouching for him.
10:35 Now, no, they didn't hire Patrick Graham, but still he obviously left a strong impression
10:40 on them and he's somebody they'll, they would keep an eye on for the future.
10:44 So it's not just about if the Seahawks move in a different direction yet for a couple
10:48 of years, it's also about, uh, Patrick Graham getting some more, uh, some guys on, on the
10:54 record vouching for him for when he goes around the coaching carousel once again, next year.
11:02 I want to ask you about Kirk Cousins because he would like to stay in Minnesota.
11:08 Minnesota would like to keep him, but they're going through some big time negotiation in
11:14 your mind.
11:15 Where does he end up?
11:16 Will he stay in Minnesota?
11:19 You know, I feel like right now I feel like most likely he ends up elsewhere.
11:25 That's just a gut feeling just with kind of the fact that I think the Vikings, they don't
11:30 necessarily want to overspend for him, especially cutting off the Achilles, even though he does
11:35 look like he's healing remarkably well.
11:37 I'm judging by some of the stuff we've seen this off season with him working out or even
11:41 him being on stage, uh, at the NFL awards.
11:45 He looks like he's moving pretty well.
11:47 I think he still has some good football left, but I don't anticipate the Vikings breaking
11:51 the bank for him.
11:52 I think they were willing to do so a little bit more a few years ago when they felt like
11:57 creating quarterback might have been the missing piece to go from being an NFC championship
12:02 team to maybe being in a Super Bowl.
12:04 But now that I think he's been there six years now, which is pretty crazy when you think
12:09 about how time flies in the NFL.
12:12 I think they appreciate what he's done for them, but I think they're hesitant to give
12:18 him big money.
12:19 I think ideally the Vikings would like to get a young quarterback in there to kind of
12:23 build around and grow with.
12:27 But I'm not sure if they'll be able to do that where they're picking or if they're gonna
12:30 have to move up or what their plan is.
12:33 I want to address this because some people have said when you're talking and I'm looking
12:37 down, I'm ignoring you, but Matt knows this.
12:39 I'm looking at my notes, getting ready for my next question, Matt, um, Las Vegas, if
12:46 Chicago gets real with their demands is a player for Justin Fields.
12:51 I said before, I don't think it's going to happen because their price was too high.
12:55 If they readjust it, maybe.
12:58 I think Minnesota is a place that would be very interested in Justin Fields.
13:03 The problem with Fields is that every day that the Bears wait to trade him, his value
13:13 is going down because then teams know you got to trade them.
13:18 How much does it behoove him to get them to get a trade done?
13:22 And at the time of this tape and he's not yet been traded, how much does it behoove
13:27 them to get a trade done?
13:29 Well, obviously it would behoove them to get it done sooner rather than later because of
13:36 like you said, teams I think are starting to wait him out a little bit because they
13:40 know that if they are going to most likely trade this kid, the longer they wait, the
13:46 price will go down.
13:47 As soon as the Bears trade him, it becomes obvious that they're holding on to that number
13:51 one pick and they're taking a quarterback, whether it's Caleb Williams or somebody else.
13:56 I know a lot of people expect them to do that anyway, even though they haven't traded Justin
14:00 Fields yet.
14:01 But as soon as they make that move, that signifies that that's what they're doing.
14:07 You know, I know you mentioned the Raiders and the Vikings, this team's potentially interested.
14:13 We've heard a lot about the Falcons.
14:16 The Steelers have also been mentioned somewhat, even though there's a report out from Jeremy
14:21 Fowler saying that they want to build around Kenny Pickett for one more year.
14:26 So we'll see if that comes to fruition.
14:29 I think there'll be a little bit of a market for Justin Fields, but if you're one of the
14:34 teams that's interested in him, there's no pressure on you right now to make a deal because
14:41 of the fact that the Bears don't really have the leverage.
14:47 They're not going to kind of wring extra assets out of a team at this point.
14:53 I think teams are content to wait it out and see if they can get something done for less
15:00 down the line.
15:02 The NFL owners have discussed moving the Combine around like the draft.
15:07 I hate that.
15:09 I think Indianapolis is perfect for it.
15:11 It's built for it.
15:12 I also think the NFL Combine is losing luster.
15:18 You see Marvin Harrison not speaking, but you see a lot of people not working.
15:22 A lot of people like Tom Telesco come out and just said, "I don't even like to sit up
15:27 in the stands because I get a 12 minute video that shows me everything they did here.
15:31 Let's do the interviews and other stuff."
15:33 I think the NFL needs to quit always making money decisions.
15:36 I'm not against making money.
15:37 I'm a capitalist.
15:39 But I think they're better off leaving it in Indy where it is.
15:43 Because I think as it continues to drop in value, then it continues to then become something
15:50 that's more of a dying horse.
15:54 I think they leave it where it is.
15:56 What are your thoughts?
15:59 One thing I'll add is that you start to see more coaches too and executives skip the Combine
16:04 because they say we can get a lot more preparation done on our own with our methods.
16:11 I think the Combine is sustained, Indy.
16:13 I think one of the best arguments for it, I can't remember who I saw tweet this, but
16:18 I agree with it.
16:19 The Combine is not a fan event.
16:21 The Super Bowl is a fan event.
16:24 The draft is a fan event.
16:26 So moving the Super Bowl around makes sense.
16:29 Moving the NFL draft around to different areas and giving different fan bases the chance
16:33 to host makes total sense.
16:35 The Combine is an event for prospects and for teams and it's a big media event, honestly,
16:42 because you can get so much networking done, talking to sources, talking to other people
16:47 in the media, talking to coaches, talking to executives.
16:50 It's not a fan event.
16:51 There's no reason to move it around.
16:54 Don't mess with what works.
16:55 Indy's got the tradition.
16:56 They've got a great setup.
16:58 Leave it there.
16:59 I think that that makes the most sense.
17:01 I 100% agree.
17:03 I'm going to tell you, I talk to other media for friendship.
17:07 I don't talk to them for sources, but man, I get so much out of talking to agents, executives,
17:14 coaches.
17:15 It's invaluable.
17:16 I can't wait to share with you some of the things I learned I can never write, but it's
17:20 invaluable to me.
17:21 I want to talk about something because I was asked by an executive if I thought what I
17:29 thought of Baker Mayfield.
17:31 Now obviously Tampa and him at the time of this taping are still trying to get a long-term
17:36 deal in, but he made himself a lot of money with the way he played this year.
17:39 He showed a lot of maturity, a lot of growing up.
17:43 He has ties to Atlanta, Raheem Morris.
17:48 He's got ties to New England, Elliott Wolfe and Highsmith.
17:53 There's a market out there.
17:54 Where do you think he ends up?
17:58 I still feel like the best option for Baker and most likely option for him is back in
18:04 Tampa.
18:07 They're not in a position to draft a quarterback high, so I think sticking with what they know
18:15 and what they're able to win with.
18:18 Obviously he won't have Dave Canales this year to help out on that side of the ball.
18:21 He's now head coach in Carolina, which is another team that's been linked to Baker a
18:27 little bit.
18:28 I think the most likely scenario and probably the best case for him, the best fit is still
18:34 Tampa Bay.
18:36 I think that he sets himself up to be a solid potential bridge starter for them for the
18:42 next couple of years because he's someone that you know that you can get quality play
18:47 out of and you can win some games where you can get to the playoffs with and there's value
18:52 in that.
18:55 Another thing I heard at the combine is the market for interior offensive line, guards
19:02 and centers, has gone so high that they believe next season will be a record for interior
19:11 offensive linemen making $15 million or more a year.
19:18 I thought that was awesome.
19:20 I love that.
19:21 I love to see the big uglies making the big jack.
19:25 What do you think of what one GM said that more $15 million plus a year interior linemen
19:31 in the NFL when the season kicks off next year?
19:33 I thought that was pretty good.
19:35 Yeah, I think what it comes down to is you're starting to see more teams.
19:38 I mean, obviously the emphasis has always been on left tackles, the blindside protectors
19:43 and you know, right tackles are at a premium for them.
19:49 That's the blindside for everybody, I guess, but to the left side.
19:53 But right tackles are obviously at a premium too, because you know, we talk about being
19:58 able to handle edge rushers, being able to handle those type of stars.
20:02 But teams know that your interior, if you get if you give up pass rush in the interior
20:07 and you give up penetration there, that's the quickest way to get to the quarterback,
20:12 quickest way to get up field and you know, stymie your run game.
20:17 So if you can't protect that middle of the interior line, it could be a big problem.
20:23 So I think that's why you're seeing teams be willing to fork over more money and more
20:28 years, more commitment to guards and centers that they feel comfortable with.
20:33 Yeah, I mean, there's been a few guys that I've seen written as potential, you know,
20:39 making tens of millions of dollars this offseason.
20:42 Kevin Dotson is one with the Rams, Jonah Jackson with the Lions.
20:49 There's a couple other names too that have that experience in the interior that are going
20:54 to command some big bucks.
21:00 Who laid McKinstry, they find a Liz Frank fracture in his medical.
21:06 Did that, sir, do you think that drops him down significantly?
21:09 A lot of people thought he would be QB, CB1 or his teammate Terry and Arnold would be
21:15 CB1, 1 and 2.
21:16 Do you think that put how far down do you think he drops with that?
21:20 You know, I first of all, I think it's great.
21:23 It's good news overall.
21:24 They find it now teams know about it.
21:27 Player knows about it.
21:28 So they can get it kind of taken care of before the offseason.
21:32 This way they're able to show up in time for training camp.
21:35 I can see it dropping a little bit.
21:36 I don't know if it'll drop him significantly.
21:40 If they think it's something that's going to be able to heal and he'll be ready to go
21:44 by the end of the summer.
21:46 I think teams will still bet on the talent and he'll still go.
21:50 I would still think he'd be a first round pick.
21:54 I agree with you there.
21:56 I do think he drops a little bit.
21:58 Yeah, I want to ask what?
22:02 I said, yeah, he'll drop a little bit.
22:03 I don't think he plummets or anything like that.
22:05 I think he'll drop some, you know, he maybe he goes from a early first round to middle
22:10 or late first round type guy.
22:13 All right.
22:14 I've got to ask you this because I'm trying to read my notes here.
22:19 The Sanford, the Los Angeles rate chargers are in hellacious shape.
22:28 They're going to have to cut some stars.
22:32 How fascinated are you by this?
22:36 And could we see some of those stars end up with the Raiders who are in great salary cap
22:41 space because Tom Telesco knows them.
22:44 They like Tom.
22:45 Tom didn't do these contracts.
22:47 The family did.
22:49 What would you think?
22:50 Could there be a couple of big name chargers that end up in the desert?
22:53 Well, usually when you see an executive or a head coach come over from a different organization,
23:00 they like to bring a couple of guys with them, guys they feel comfortable with, guys they
23:05 know they contribute.
23:06 So it wouldn't shock me at all to see some type of connections there, especially if there's
23:11 some salary cap casualties.
23:14 We know that Jim Arbo is not afraid to go in and shake the table, shake things up.
23:19 So he's not going to be afraid to revamp that roster if he feels that it's going to make
23:23 the best, it's going to be the best interest of the team long term.
23:27 So yeah, I mean, I could definitely see some guys making that trip just a little bit further
23:32 east from L.A. to Las Vegas.
23:35 I totally agree.
23:37 All right, let me go.
23:38 I want to pick your brain on the draft.
23:42 I think the Bears are pretty much locked in on Caleb, which stuns me because everybody
23:48 I know, I've been telling you this for a long time, the people I know in the NFL who are
23:52 big quarterback people think Caleb's a bust.
23:56 But they said he's going to go number one because the teams traditionally at the top
24:00 are bad because they don't know how to draft.
24:02 He's got all the talent in the world, the most talented player in the world in the draft
24:07 and more red flags than anyone in the draft.
24:11 But I think he goes to the Bears.
24:13 I think the commanders take Jaden Daniels and I think the New England takes Drake May.
24:20 I don't think there's going to be much movement there.
24:23 I think those three are pretty much locked in.
24:26 What do you think?
24:27 Yeah, I think I lean that way, too.
24:29 I think that there's a lot of buzz about potential movement.
24:32 There's talk about teams like the Falcons wanting to move up for a quarterback or the
24:37 Raiders or the Giants and things like that.
24:40 But takes two to tango.
24:42 You need that second team to be willing to draft, having willing to trade for you.
24:47 We know Washington's basically say they're taking a quarterback or two.
24:51 We don't know who it'll be yet, but they're staying put and taking the quarterback.
24:54 I think everybody expects the Bears ultimately to stay there and take a quarterback at one.
25:01 And that leaves three.
25:02 Now, I know there's been some talk about is New England sold on taking a new quarterback?
25:07 My guess is yes.
25:08 They haven't come out and said it yet, but I think when push comes to shove, they will
25:12 take a QB unless something happens.
25:16 The only thing I can see is if they're really only like two guys and they both go one, two
25:21 and it's a last minute type trade, maybe something like that happens.
25:25 But I ultimately think the most likely scenario is first three picks are quarterbacks and
25:32 a draft sort of starts at four with I believe Arizona has the fourth pick.
25:36 So that would be, you know, that's where things could kind of get interesting.
25:40 And then the biggest entry after that is where do the next set of quarterbacks start going?
25:46 Do they, does someone sneak into the top 10?
25:49 Do they go mid first round?
25:52 You know, where, where does those guys go?
25:55 I am hearing, and I've told you this a month ago, JJ McCarthy, the people that I respect
26:01 have him either one or two as their top quarterbacks in this draft.
26:06 I know several teams that only have two quarterbacks of first round grades, but one of them is
26:10 JJ McCarthy.
26:12 I was told, don't be shocked if a traditionally good team moves up to get a JJ.
26:20 I was told there's no way he'll be at 13 for the Raiders.
26:25 How impressed were you with JJ who by all accounts had an awesome combine?
26:30 Well, I think that what he has in it, it's, I think this is the, both the reason that
26:37 fans aren't that high on him and, or it's not, not all fans, but a lot of fans aren't
26:42 that high on him.
26:43 And simultaneously, some NFL teams are higher on him than, you know, the public perception
26:49 is he's a little bit of a blank slate there because he didn't have to do all that much
26:55 in college.
26:56 You know, he was a winner.
26:58 He started every week.
26:59 He was durable.
27:00 He was good leader, but Michigan didn't need him to sling the ball around 30, 35 times
27:06 a game.
27:07 They, until they played Alabama, right.
27:10 So they, until they got to the college ball playoff, then they needed to step up more.
27:15 But during the regular season, with Kool-Aid and Terrian.
27:18 Yeah.
27:19 So no, I mean, there were some, there were teams that got to see, you know, what he could
27:24 do there.
27:25 And then, you know, he gets into workouts and he gets into the interviews and I could
27:29 see him being very impressive in those settings as well.
27:32 So I feel like more often than not, you'll get a quarterback that rises throughout the
27:37 process and surprises people about where they're picked.
27:40 And I think he's just seems like this year's guy.
27:43 I think he's going to go, if he doesn't go top 10, when all is said and done, it's not
27:49 going to be much longer outside the top 10 and he has to wait.
27:52 I think he's going to be an early first round pick.
27:55 I agree.
27:56 He is the one and only the great Matt Holadek from thespun.com.
27:59 Make sure that it's part of your favorites.
28:01 I read thespun.com every, it's the first sports site I go read every single day.
28:07 I have one other place I go first, but I go there.
28:11 First sports site that I go to.
28:13 So proud of this guy and his friendship.
28:15 Matt, thanks for being with us.
28:16 Stay the line.
28:17 Remember, I want to talk to you.
28:18 Follow me on IG @HondoSR on X, formerly known as Twitter, when you go to @HondoCarpenter.
28:23 Don't forget si.com/NFL/Raiders.
28:27 We'll see you.
28:27 [BLANK_AUDIO]