Exclusive: Henry Kissinger talks AI, Israel, and the future of democracy before his death

Insider

Henry Kissinger died at 100 years old November 30. In an exclusive interview, he shared some of his views on the world and how he wants to be remembered.

Transcript

00:00 How I live to be 100, I don't know.

00:05 I didn't aim for it.

00:09 - But you're still enjoying it.

00:12 - You know, when you reach my age,

00:15 a certain serenity descends on you

00:20 because you can have no ambitions for the future.

00:27 So you have to do the right thing

00:32 'cause you can damage yourself very much.

00:37 - You became famous as a politician

00:39 for the idea of realpolitik.

00:41 That's a very pragmatic approach of politics.

00:44 - I'm an idealist who believes, however,

00:52 that ideals have to be related to practical possibilities

00:57 or that practical actions have to be inspired by ideals.

01:05 I believe today, if one wants to solve the problems

01:11 of this world, that one has to be inspired by visions.

01:18 The invasion of a country, taking off hostages,

01:23 killing some hostages, inflicting over 1,000 casualties,

01:30 that this could be believed to be possible

01:41 in the international system is amazing.

01:47 Now, here we have an attack on Israeli territory itself

01:52 whose purpose can only be to mobilize the Arab world

02:00 against Israel and to get off the track

02:05 of peaceful negotiations.

02:10 There has to be some penalty.

02:13 I think Israel has no choice except to invade Gaza

02:18 and to try to put this kind of relationship to an end.

02:24 - You have met in your political life

02:32 many leaders several times, Mao, Brezhnev, Putin,

02:37 other autocrats, dictators, populists.

02:40 Which leader was the most scary personality

02:45 that you have ever met?

02:47 - I don't like the word scary.

02:50 - Or dangerous.

02:52 - Well, in terms of capability, I would say Mao.

02:56 - He killed almost 90 million people.

02:58 Mao is still celebrated in China.

03:01 - He would kill what was needed to achieve his objectives.

03:06 - You have met Xi Jinping several times.

03:10 Would you say that he has changed his personality

03:14 and we have to deal with a different,

03:16 more autocratic Xi today than a couple of years ago?

03:21 - I think the early Chinese leaders that we met--

03:25 - Deng Xiaoping.

03:26 - Like Deng Xiaoping were easier to deal with

03:32 because for them, accommodation to the international system

03:39 was of prime importance in order to build their economy.

03:44 - How optimistic are you for the future of democracy?

03:48 - I think democracy is in trouble.

03:51 Now the life of people changes dramatically

03:57 and the inequalities of income are more obvious

04:07 than they were in previous periods.

04:09 So that the need for compromise and for understanding

04:16 which you and I believe are central

04:28 to a democratic system are in great danger.

04:34 And that in the West and in the rest of the world,

04:39 the easiest way to seize power

04:44 is by control of the military

04:48 and by control of government

04:53 through authoritarian means.

05:04 And once power is enjoyed,

05:08 people are very reluctant to leave it.

05:12 - Henry, from the perspective of a 100-year-old person,

05:17 are Biden and/or Trump too old for office?

05:22 - Biden is an elected president

05:29 and I have no,

05:32 I don't agree with some of his policies,

05:39 but I don't attack him.

05:47 - Should there be, instead of a minimum age

05:51 for an American president, perhaps a maximum age?

05:55 - Look, let me answer your question this way.

05:59 The point of view that I represent

06:08 and that I have explained to you

06:10 has no candidate in the presidency now.

06:15 But on issues of national interest,

06:23 I have supported Biden in the Ukraine war.

06:28 So he's a different phenomenon from Trump,

06:32 with whom I also have had friendly relations.

06:36 But Trump has been so focused on himself

06:41 that I think he would find it very difficult

06:44 to unify the country.

06:50 - Which political decision that you took in your career

06:54 would you decide differently today?

06:59 - You know, I'm often asked that question.

07:02 I think the directions I wouldn't change,

07:07 but there might be tactical,

07:10 there are tactical decisions along the way

07:14 that prove strong,

07:17 like my proclamation of the year of Europe was premature.

07:22 And therefore,

07:26 in the Vietnam War that is always mentioned,

07:34 my overriding conviction was

07:40 not to throw the government that had fought with us

07:46 to the absolutists.

07:48 And I thought we had to preserve this government

07:55 that we had created,

07:57 and that turned out to be incompatible

08:01 with our domestic politics.

08:04 But if we had acted otherwise,

08:07 and by we I don't mean me alone,

08:10 or me primarily,

08:13 but if America had acted otherwise,

08:17 and thrown South Vietnam to the wolves

08:23 in any administration,

08:27 it would have undermined the credibility of our alliances.

08:32 So,

08:40 should we have gotten out earlier?

08:43 It's hard to say because our opponents

08:47 would permit us to get out earlier

08:52 only on conditions

08:55 that would have looked

08:58 like the absolute weakness

09:03 of the United States,

09:07 and inability to protect them.

09:11 - Henry, you could make a political decision,

09:14 and it would be immediately executed

09:17 without any discussion.

09:19 Which decision would that be?

09:21 What would you decide?

09:23 - On AI,

09:24 I'm trying to bring together scientists

09:30 and thoughtful people

09:36 who are trying to find a way out.

09:39 The scientists have no evil intentions.

09:47 Their intentions are good,

09:51 but they're developing what they see.

09:57 But we have to find a means of unite that

10:04 freedom and

10:08 coexistence in the world.

10:12 - Will, in the long run,

10:14 the machines serve human beings,

10:18 or will human beings serve the machines?

10:21 - That's the question of our lifetime.

10:24 I think it can be avoided,

10:26 but only by understanding the essence of this intelligence.

10:34 Which will also be able to generate its own point of view.

10:39 It's the big challenge of our future,

10:43 and it's on that level,

10:45 it's in the interest of China

10:51 and other advanced countries,

10:55 and eventually all countries to join it.

11:01 Because otherwise they're in the hands

11:06 of machinery that they don't understand.

11:13 I'm very concerned with AI.

11:15 You ask a question,

11:17 and you get an answer.

11:21 And you believe in this answer,

11:25 even though you have no idea

11:29 what the process is by which the answer is produced.

11:34 And how the computer acquires its own knowledge.

11:42 Once these machines can communicate with each other,

11:49 which will certainly happen within five years,

11:57 then it becomes almost a species problem

12:02 of whether the human species can retain its individuality

12:09 in the face of this competition

12:15 that it itself has created.

12:18 This is the profound problem

12:26 we are now dealing with a genuinely different intelligence.

12:31 - Henry, very last question.

12:36 In 50 years, how should people speak of you in one sentence?

12:41 - I first want to say, I don't worry too much about that.

12:53 But I'd like to think of me as having been born

12:58 in a free society and wanted to bring,

13:13 to contribute to world order,

13:21 so that freedom isn't constrained by constant crisis.

13:26 That's why I've devoted myself

13:38 in various wars around the world,

13:42 to bringing them to a constructive end.

13:48 And wherever possible, a democratic solution.

13:52 (silence)

13:54 [BLANK_AUDIO]

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