- 19/09/2023
Martyn Simpson and Lewis Anderson look back on last weekend's Scottish Premiership action. Did Rangers win over St Johnstone relieve the pressure on Michael Beale? What's going so wrong at Aberdeen and can the Dons turn it around? There's also Hibs, Motherwell and much more ahead of another exciting week of Scottish football action.
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00:00 (upbeat music)
00:02 - Hello and welcome to National World Fitbit Talk,
00:06 your nan's favorite football podcast, Ken.
00:08 It's a show where we break down the latest news
00:10 and results from around the Scottish Premiership.
00:12 I'm your host, Martin Simpson,
00:14 and I'm joined as always by regular guest,
00:16 Lewis Anderson from Glasgow World.
00:18 We're gonna be taking a look back
00:20 at the weekend's most recent Scottish Premiership results,
00:22 and we'll be looking ahead to this weekend's fixtures.
00:25 So, Lewis, let's start off with what was the first game
00:29 of the weekend at McDermott Park?
00:32 A 2-0 win for Rangers.
00:34 When you're managing one of the two Glasgow clubs,
00:39 the pressure's never off for long,
00:41 but that result will have relieved a bit of the pressure
00:44 that was starting to build on Michael Beale.
00:46 - Yeah, yeah, a really important one.
00:49 Obviously, there's been a lot of disgruntled Rangers fans
00:52 due to the kind of underwhelming start to the season.
00:57 Obviously, a lot's been made about the new signings,
00:59 still kind of not making the impact
01:01 that many would have expected them to have.
01:04 And yeah, this was a massive win for them, really,
01:08 as you mentioned there, much needed for Michael Beale.
01:10 The pressure was on him early doors,
01:12 given, of course, this was the first time they were playing
01:16 since the old firm defeat,
01:18 and of course, being dumped out of the Champions League.
01:21 So it has been a really disappointing start to the season.
01:24 There's no getting away from that.
01:25 And you needed to, I still think this next run of games
01:30 could seriously be make or break.
01:32 And in my view, I think they've got
01:35 the likes of Livingston, Aberdeen,
01:37 these teams still to play.
01:40 I don't think at this moment in time,
01:43 Europe this season is something that Rangers
01:48 will do a great deal in,
01:50 and the Europa League, as they started out on Thursday night.
01:54 But it was important that they go into this game
01:56 against Real Betis on Thursday on the back
01:58 of a real kind of confidence-boosting win.
02:01 I thought, barring maybe a 15-minute, 20-minute spell
02:05 to start the second half,
02:06 where St. John's did have a couple of half chances,
02:11 if you like, Rangers across the board
02:15 were pretty comfortable winners in the end.
02:18 - Yeah, well, they will have those European games then.
02:21 I think the important thing is that the rest of September,
02:24 now it's four home games.
02:27 A positive result against Betis on Thursday
02:29 will certainly put them in the right sort of mind frame
02:33 to go on, and then they've really,
02:36 I mean, it goes without saying, I suppose,
02:38 but three home games for a club like Rangers
02:40 is nine points must,
02:42 especially you wouldn't expect Livingston necessarily
02:47 to go to Ibrox and get something.
02:49 They don't have the best track record of doing that.
02:52 Aberdeen at the end of the month,
02:54 maybe they might have potentially turned a corner by then.
02:57 Aberdeen fans can only hope,
02:58 but right now things aren't looking good for them.
03:00 Motherwell, Motherwell's an interesting one.
03:02 I saw Motherwell play Hearts at Tyne Castle
03:05 a couple weeks back, just before the international break.
03:08 They looked really impressive, really solid,
03:12 defended well, and then turned it on,
03:14 and it was a good attack that led to their goal.
03:17 And somewhat surprisingly, with credit to St. Maron,
03:22 St. Maron get the win at Fir Park.
03:24 I mean, Motherwell seem to be a team
03:25 that are a lot better on the road than they are at home,
03:28 which is an interesting thing whenever that crops up.
03:31 So that tie there, probably if you're Rangers,
03:36 you would have liked that one to come
03:39 maybe where the Aberdeen game is,
03:41 and then have the Aberdeen game up this weekend,
03:43 given how Aberdeen are doing, speaking of which.
03:47 That would probably be the worst possible thing for them,
03:51 given the run of form they're in,
03:52 would be a trip to Ibrox,
03:54 but luckily they don't have that
03:55 until the end of the month.
03:57 They're in European action, obviously.
03:59 They face Intract, Frankfurt on Thursday,
04:02 and then, I mean, if you're Barry Robson,
04:05 it seems to me like two must-win games,
04:09 Ross County at home,
04:11 and then Ross County away in the League Cup.
04:14 We mentioned on this show a couple of weeks ago
04:16 with Celtic being knocked out of that competition,
04:18 it opens up so much,
04:21 and I think every team that's left in it now
04:23 knows that there's a real shot
04:24 that they could actually win the trophy.
04:26 - Yep, yep.
04:27 - So, but yeah, I mean,
04:29 I don't know how much you've seen of Aberdeen lately, Louis,
04:31 but it's just not been good.
04:35 I've seen quite a few of their matches,
04:37 the hacking game, obviously.
04:39 The free at the back system just wasn't quite working.
04:45 Aberdeen have brought in so many defenders,
04:48 and obviously they will need time to gel,
04:50 and that was really exposed in the hacking game,
04:54 as well as the fact that Umar Sadiq's a terrific player
04:58 and he's torn Aberdeen's defense apart.
05:00 You do have to recognize that kind of ability
05:02 when you see it,
05:03 but there were definitely issues at the back.
05:06 And then against Hearts there on Sunday,
05:08 that was quite obvious, too.
05:09 They just, at times, there was just a bit of communication.
05:13 Things just weren't going quite,
05:15 James McGarry, he looked impressive in attack,
05:19 but when that need, like,
05:23 Scotland fans will know this.
05:25 When the full back's up,
05:27 the defense needs to get their shape
05:29 and get their position right in order to cover
05:31 for the fact that a defender is
05:33 in the opposition's final third,
05:35 if possession changes over, which it's likely to.
05:38 And Aberdeen just, once McGarry got up the pitch
05:42 and was being quite effective as an attacker,
05:45 that back three sort of transitioning
05:47 into the back four, if you like,
05:49 just wasn't able to deal with the return,
05:54 the counterattack from Hearts.
05:56 And I think that it led to quite a lot of confusion
05:59 at the back, which Hearts capitalized on really well.
06:03 And then they moved to four at the back
06:06 just shortly after into the second half
06:08 to take McGarry off, put Ryan Duncan on.
06:11 Richard Jensen goes to left back
06:12 and they're playing with four
06:13 and things don't really get any better.
06:15 If anything, they get worse
06:17 and Hearts are more comfortable.
06:18 What's your take on this whole situation, Lissa?
06:22 Do you think, first of all,
06:23 that Barry Robson's potentially
06:26 on a sugary peg at the moment?
06:28 - I think, you know, it's a difficult one
06:33 'cause obviously this is his kind of first-married GEO job
06:36 and obviously it's a pretty high profile one
06:38 to transition into.
06:40 I know he's obviously highly thought of previously
06:43 as a coach, but yeah, you've got to be slightly concerned
06:47 even at this early stage.
06:48 I know the kind of upturn in form
06:50 during the second half of last season
06:52 was particularly impressive,
06:53 but he's been well backed over the summer.
06:56 I think that has to be recognized.
06:58 And they brought in a lot of new players
07:01 of a decent standard, you would say, on paper.
07:05 Quite rightly touched on it.
07:07 It's as if, we spoke a few weeks ago about Motherwell
07:12 and how every kind of player seems to know
07:15 their position in the team at the minute.
07:16 Aberdeen, from, you know, defence to midfield,
07:20 look a bit muddled at the moment, a bit disjointed.
07:24 And I thought, you know,
07:25 particularly against Hearts at the weekend,
07:27 I thought they gave the ball away as well
07:28 a numerous amount of times, which, you know,
07:31 Aberdeen normally quite a notoriously good, you know,
07:36 football retention team.
07:37 And you know, Mioski and Duke, Duke in particular,
07:40 he's cut a really kind of frustrated figure
07:42 the last couple of weeks.
07:43 I think that's about 13, 14 games now without a goal.
07:46 So he's been feeding off scraps.
07:49 So yeah, it's just, it all seems a bit kind of disjointed
07:51 at this moment in time.
07:53 And you would question Robson, you know,
07:58 clearly a good coach, but in situations like this,
08:03 is he the type of manager that you maybe want to get
08:08 out of a rut?
08:09 Because as you said, you know,
08:10 the hangover from the Hacking defeat in Europe
08:13 has been quite significant.
08:16 I fancied him at the weekend to go down to Tyne Castle
08:19 and pick up a result, given the way Hearts have been playing.
08:22 And so to come away with that,
08:24 it's kind of difficult to know where to start
08:28 at the moment in Aberdeen in one way.
08:31 So certainly something needs to change and quickly.
08:35 - Yeah, one tiny thing I think you can say
08:39 in their defence is that it has been a very difficult start
08:42 to the season.
08:43 There's not been one match,
08:45 not that there are any easy matches on paper,
08:47 but there's not been any one result
08:50 other than the Hibbs result, I think that you could say
08:52 would be what you would class as particularly disappointing.
08:55 Like you look at the game on paper and go,
08:57 no, Aberdeen should be winning that.
08:58 Like a trip to Livingston,
09:00 playing Hacking the Swedish champions,
09:02 going to Tyne Castle,
09:03 these aren't games where you go,
09:05 Aberdeen should be winning that
09:07 because Livingston are good at home.
09:09 No one goes to Tyne Castle and thinks they're going,
09:12 they're definitely going to win
09:13 unless Hearts are in a spell of being, you know,
09:17 hearts as they tend to be every so often
09:20 when they go through these little spells.
09:22 But really when you look at,
09:25 I think if you asked Aberdeen fans right now
09:27 what their best defence was,
09:30 they wouldn't know, I mean,
09:31 they haven't even seen Rhys Williams play yet.
09:33 The new defender that they brought in on deadline day,
09:37 Gartenmann, he,
09:39 there's no point in singling any of the defenders out
09:42 in their first game, but he seemed,
09:46 I'm guessing he's going to be one of the sort of,
09:49 if they're going to stick with this back three,
09:50 one of the main parts of this back three,
09:55 because Angus MacDonald dropped to the bench.
09:57 And I think that raised a lot of questions,
09:59 particularly because Slobodan Rubicic
10:02 has not looked impressive
10:06 in the early stages of the season.
10:07 He's definitely on the slower side,
10:11 which isn't always a problem.
10:12 There's been plenty of defenders who completely lacked pace,
10:15 but were still world-class defenders.
10:17 You look at someone like Per Mertesacker
10:20 who didn't have an inch of pace in him,
10:23 but won over a hundred caps for Germany,
10:25 that lets you know how good you can still be
10:27 without being a quick defender.
10:29 But he's a big lad, he heads the ball well,
10:31 but he just so far has looked a bit dodgy.
10:36 But he probably had his best game for Aberdeen
10:40 at time class at the weekend.
10:42 And listen, that's not a high bar
10:44 based on his previous performances,
10:45 but, and he did make a few errors,
10:47 but if he continues to get better,
10:49 maybe he's a part of that starting defense.
10:52 I think the fullbacks are obviously going to be
10:54 Magari and Devlin,
10:56 because I don't know what the signing of Ordeida was about,
10:59 but your guess is as good as mine,
11:03 what's going on there.
11:04 But yeah, but probably it's not just defense.
11:06 Another really frustrating thing for Aberdeen at the moment is,
11:10 again, if you ask an Aberdeen fan,
11:12 say what is the best area of their team?
11:14 And as good as we know Majowski and Duke are,
11:16 they're probably going to say their midfield,
11:19 because Graeme Schinney is proven to be a terrific
11:22 ball winning combative player at this level.
11:25 And Leighton Clarkson would know the quality he possesses.
11:28 And for some reason,
11:30 a lot of the play in this wingback,
11:33 five, three, two formation seems to surpass the midfield.
11:38 And when you've got a player like Clarkson there,
11:41 I kind of feel like a lot of Aberdeen's focus
11:44 should be on getting the ball to him in space
11:47 where he can pull the strings and why they're not.
11:50 I mean, even Connor Barron, when he came on,
11:52 was capable of doing that and picked out a few decent passes.
11:57 So when they've got two players,
11:58 at least that are capable of running the show for midfield,
12:02 and then you've got a player like Schinney
12:04 who can also do the grit and the hard work.
12:06 - Yes.
12:07 - Why is so much of their play?
12:09 I guess we'll see.
12:13 I think the two Ross County games
12:14 are potentially make or break for Barry Robson.
12:20 - I would look at maybe bringing Dante Polvara
12:24 back into the side,
12:25 who I thought was particularly impressive
12:27 during the first few games of the season.
12:30 I know he's just signed that new deal as well until 2026.
12:33 So clearly they feel he has a big part to play going forward.
12:38 I'm not too sure what the reasoning has been for him dropping.
12:43 - The reason is probably that maybe Jamie McGrath
12:45 is just a bit more direct.
12:48 Jamie McGrath's more of an attacking midfielder,
12:51 whereas Polvara, he's in the vein potentially
12:55 of a Ferguson or a McLean, if you like.
12:57 He can play that more forward role,
12:59 but he's potentially better slightly deeper.
13:03 And I think maybe getting McGrath in
13:05 just to make sure they've got that extra threat
13:09 around the edge of the box might be the thinking there.
13:12 But I would expect Polvara will come back in,
13:15 certainly for the Frankfurt game,
13:17 probably for one of the two Ross County games.
13:20 And then probably one final thing is the Aberdeen
13:24 splashed big on the signing of Pape Gueye, the striker,
13:28 who looked impressive in a physical sense.
13:33 He's a big, muscular, strong lad.
13:36 And you think someone like that can do well.
13:38 But from what I saw at Tyne Castle,
13:40 almost everything he did was terrible.
13:44 Every touch of the ball, nothing worked out for him.
13:49 The Hearts team were picking it off him very easily.
13:54 Look, he's still young.
13:56 He's very early into his career in Scottish football.
13:59 Other players have had slow starts
14:01 and have gotten better as time goes on.
14:04 You only need to look a couple of years ago
14:06 to what Sam Cosgrove was able to do at Aberdeen,
14:08 and that's a very good example.
14:10 But it's not been a great start for a player
14:13 that they've invested a significant amount of money in.
14:15 So I think they will,
14:17 hopefully a slow introduction will see him build.
14:21 But we need to move on to other teams.
14:23 And I think it's probably worth now speaking about Hibs.
14:27 It looked like things were going really well
14:30 for Montgomery's first game in charge.
14:32 And then, well, I mean, the wheels came off, did they?
14:36 - Yeah, yeah, they really did.
14:38 And again, a lot of credit goes to Colmarnock.
14:41 That's kind of a never-say-die attitude
14:44 that McInnes has instilled in his team this season.
14:47 And as I said, I said it, I think,
14:50 after the first game of the season against Rangers,
14:52 I just don't see this Colmarnock team
14:54 being anywhere near the drop zone this season.
14:57 They've got all the type of battling qualities
14:58 that can easily push for a place in the top six.
15:02 Yeah, I mean, Hibs will be,
15:06 I think Montgomery spoke about that afterwards,
15:09 how bitterly disappointed he was,
15:10 given that he had very little time as well
15:13 to work with the players,
15:15 given that he was only appointed last week,
15:18 only a few training sessions.
15:22 So he'll have been delighted
15:23 with what he saw particularly in that first half.
15:26 But yeah, I mean, from that position of strength,
15:30 you're looking at it with half an hour to go
15:32 and you're saying just try and, if anything,
15:34 see the game out.
15:36 Obviously the confidence among the Hibs players
15:38 is still probably pretty fragile
15:40 on the back of the heavy European embarrassment
15:44 to Aston Villa.
15:46 So yeah, I think given time,
15:50 Montgomery will transform his fortunes.
15:53 They're really an interesting appointment, Martin.
15:55 I don't know what you kind of made of it.
15:57 I know he's really well-respected in Australia
16:00 and has had good success previously in the UK.
16:06 But what do you think?
16:08 Do you think there's certainly the need
16:11 to improve defensively
16:13 and I'd like to see another option upfront as well.
16:16 I think they're lacking a bit of attack and flair
16:19 at this moment in time.
16:20 - Yeah, I think it's the right sort of vein
16:25 of what they were looking for.
16:28 I'm glad that they didn't just go for,
16:31 I want to say with all due respect to Lee Johnson,
16:34 with the respect his coaching career deserves,
16:37 just another EFL jobber for lack of a better term.
16:41 Paul Heckenbottom had a very poor run at Hibs.
16:47 Lee Johnson didn't have a great time of it at Hibs.
16:49 I don't think, if you want to talk about success
16:52 and talking about what a fifth place finish
16:54 and the fact that they managed to sneak into Europe
16:56 off the back of that just to get hammered by Aston Villa.
16:59 I'm not using Aston Villa as an example
17:02 because there are levels
17:03 and you can't expect Hibs to,
17:06 you maybe expect them to be a bit more competitive
17:08 but you can't expect them to win that tie.
17:11 But I like the Montgomery appointment.
17:13 I like that it's, I don't think it's fully outside the box
17:17 but it's certainly a bit more creative
17:21 in terms of where they were looking and where they went.
17:24 And yeah, and it's interesting
17:26 because Derek McInnes was obviously,
17:28 Neil Lennon was linked
17:29 but Derek McInnes was a name that was mentioned.
17:33 And I think avoiding him for Hibs at the moment
17:36 was the right idea because listen,
17:40 like Derek McInnes' style of football,
17:42 we know what it is
17:43 and we know it's not always pretty on the eye,
17:45 but it works.
17:47 - It's effective, yeah.
17:48 - You can't, it's effective, yeah.
17:50 It was effective at Aberdeen.
17:52 It was effective at Aberdeen, but it had a ceiling.
17:57 It works better at Kilmarnock
17:59 because the expectations are lower.
18:03 But I don't think Hibs have the players at the moment
18:08 to be that kind of stubborn,
18:12 hard to break down kind of team.
18:15 What they do have is very creative attacking players
18:18 and you want someone that can get the best
18:20 out of people like Martin Boyle.
18:23 And I think getting on a point,
18:25 getting someone in who wants to play a good brand
18:29 of football for Hibs at the moment is the right call.
18:32 But Scottish football is littered with the tombstones
18:37 of managers who came up here trying to play
18:41 creative attacking football only to be stifled
18:45 by teams who like McInnes,
18:49 like lots of teams over the years,
18:51 Stephen Robinson's Motherwell,
18:54 to an extent Malchie Mackay's Ross County,
18:56 teams that are very good at that,
18:59 being stubborn, being hard to break down.
19:02 We'll get one chance, we'll take it.
19:04 If we don't take it, we're leaving with a point
19:06 kind of mentality.
19:08 - I think Hibs in a way almost need to,
19:12 I wouldn't say go back to basics,
19:14 but I was having a look at the last weekend,
19:16 apart from the win against Aberdeen,
19:18 that was their first clean sheet in about 14 games
19:22 going back to that nil-nil draw at Pataudry last May.
19:26 And as you mentioned there,
19:29 they need to defend a bit of steel defensively
19:33 and that kind of keeping the back door shut,
19:36 they're leaking goals far too often.
19:38 That's kind of something that I think
19:39 Montgomery needs to address right away.
19:42 - Yeah, so no disagreement here.
19:45 They clearly know how to get the best
19:47 out of their attacking players,
19:48 but yeah, defensively, they really like.
19:51 We had a guest on the show a couple of weeks ago
19:55 was it, it was Craig Fowler, wasn't it?
19:57 Who said they need another Marvin Bartley, don't they?
20:00 They need that type of player
20:02 and they don't have anyone that can be that at the moment.
20:05 And certainly now they're gonna have to wait till January,
20:09 but I definitely think Montgomery's gonna
20:13 put his stamp on this Hibs team.
20:15 And I wish him success because I want a manager
20:19 to go to Hearts or Hibs or Aberdeen
20:22 or honestly any other team and have success
20:25 playing good football because we just don't see it enough.
20:29 And I think at the weekend,
20:31 we kind of saw the pitfalls of it,
20:33 conceding two late goals and dropping two points
20:36 from a game that they probably should have won.
20:38 Just very quickly on the McInnes thing, Lewis,
20:41 I mean, that's, obviously in the time
20:46 since he's left Aberdeen,
20:48 the Hearts and Hibs jobs have both came up and passed him by.
20:52 I mean, what do you think?
20:55 Do you think he is, do you think maybe Kilmarnock,
20:58 he's gonna be there for a while
21:00 and he's gonna have plenty of time there
21:02 to really make that side his own?
21:05 Or do you think someone, whether it's down South
21:08 or whether it's the next time the Hearts or Hibs jobs go,
21:11 or he's not going back to Aberdeen, we can rule that out,
21:16 but the next time one of these jobs potentially comes up,
21:20 they might take a serious look at him?
21:22 - Yeah, I mean, obviously,
21:23 stock in Scottish football is incredibly high.
21:26 - Even Rangers, it's worth mentioning.
21:30 Like how much would he have to do at Kilmarnock
21:32 to be back in that conversation like he was in,
21:35 was it 2018, 2017, 2018, when he, round about then?
21:40 - Yeah, yeah, I think, first and foremost,
21:45 his remit was to get Kilmarnock back into the premiership.
21:47 They managed to do that the kind of first time of asking,
21:51 which I kind of thought was going to happen at the time.
21:55 They won the league fairly convincingly in the end.
22:00 And he's managed to build on that.
22:04 I think last season was kind of a case of just making sure
22:08 that you kind of solidify your place back in the premiership,
22:11 keep retaining that top flight status
22:13 and then build from here.
22:14 So I think he's part of a long-term project
22:18 down at Rugby Park.
22:20 I think they kind of want to maybe see him as a Steve Clark.
22:25 Can he potentially get in top six in European football?
22:29 And from there, see where it takes him.
22:32 I think you're right in what you say.
22:34 I think when you talk about Scottish football managers
22:39 out with the old firm being incredibly successful,
22:42 he is probably the go-to guy.
22:46 If you like, he obviously won a trophy at Aberdeen
22:49 and qualified for Europe for, what was it,
22:52 about seven consecutive seasons in a row,
22:54 which is a pretty impressive feat.
22:57 And this season, he's managed to claim the scalp
23:02 of both the Glasgow clubs
23:03 in the first two months of the season.
23:06 I think they'll be very happy with the job he's doing.
23:09 I think the squad that he's built is a much better team
23:13 than it was last season.
23:15 I think that's reflective in the results so far this season.
23:19 And I think, you know, he's stopped well behind.
23:23 He's one of them managers,
23:24 I wonder if he'd be, if an opportunity came,
23:28 you know, say an English Championship side,
23:31 you know, might send Daff, like one of his former clubs,
23:34 even a West Brom, if they were to come,
23:36 the lure of potentially going back down south
23:40 might be something that interests him
23:43 further down the line.
23:45 - Yeah, he gets linked with that West Brom job
23:47 sort of on the fringes of the conversation
23:50 whenever it comes up.
23:51 Like, he's earned his stripes in Scottish football.
23:56 (upbeat music)
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