#chairmanpti #ciphercase #attockjail #supremecourt #pticorecommitteemembers
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Waseem Badami
Guests:
- Sher Afzal Khan Marwat (PTI Lawyer)
- Naeem Haider Panjutha (Lawyer)
- Chaudhry Aitzaz Ahsan (Lawyer)
PTI Lawyers's big statement regarding cipher case hearing in attock jail
PTI Lawyer Sher Afzal breaks biggest news today
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Waseem Badami
Guests:
- Sher Afzal Khan Marwat (PTI Lawyer)
- Naeem Haider Panjutha (Lawyer)
- Chaudhry Aitzaz Ahsan (Lawyer)
PTI Lawyers's big statement regarding cipher case hearing in attock jail
PTI Lawyer Sher Afzal breaks biggest news today
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00 As-salamu alaikum. We are in the context of the continuous cases of the Chairman PTI.
00:20 Today, a new case was closed and the case was closed in Attock Jail. The court was set up there.
00:25 The case was of Cipher and it was closed in jail because the security forces were told that they cannot be brought to court.
00:34 What is this case? What is the allegation on this case? What happened in the closing of this case?
00:40 And in the closing of this case, the lawyers, four lawyers went and after that the meeting of the lawyers with the Chairman PTI.
00:47 We will come to the answers to all these questions after a while.
00:50 Before that, the latest development is that this case has been challenged in Islamabad High Court on the guidance of the Chairman PTI.
00:58 Why is his case being closed in jail? Why is it not being closed in court?
01:03 This has been challenged. His lawyer is Sher Afzal Marwat and he has done this on the guidance of the Chairman PTI.
01:09 And in Islamabad High Court, his case has been closed.
01:13 So let's talk to Sher Afzal Marwat first. As-salamu alaikum Huzoor.
01:18 Wa alaikum as-salam. Mr. Chief Justice, are you well?
01:22 Sir, thank you very much for giving me time.
01:24 So the Chairman PTI has sent you a guidance to appeal on this case and to file a written appeal in Islamabad High Court
01:29 that why is the case being closed in jail and not in court.
01:33 So now your petition has been approved for the closing of the case.
01:37 Is the case being closed tomorrow morning?
01:39 Yes, tomorrow it is fixed. It is fixed in front of the Chief Justice of Islamabad High Court.
01:46 We have challenged two things in this.
01:48 One, we have challenged the trial in jail and the notification of the Law Ministry.
01:55 And the second, we have challenged the notification of Abul Hasan Nath as a designated court under the Official Secret Act 1923.
02:07 Because it is not in accordance with the law. We have challenged these two things in one writ.
02:11 Do you have any objection to the personality of the judge who has not attended the hearing or to the way he has been treated?
02:18 No, I have no objection to the personality or to the way he has been treated.
02:22 According to the law, his notification is wrong.
02:27 How is that? Can you explain what that means?
02:31 According to the law, the judge who is to preside over the hearing can be a magistrate.
02:42 Because Abul Hasan Nath is not a magistrate, but a district institution judge and is the judge of the ATC court number 1.
02:54 So, calling a district institution judge or ATC judge a magistrate is against the law.
03:02 The definition of a magistrate is in Code of Criminal Procedure Section 2, Subsection MMA, Redwich Section 12 and 14.
03:13 In some way, Abul Hasan Nath is not a magistrate.
03:17 I remember that when the Doshakhana case was heard in Islamabad High Court, Lateef Khossa said that the election commission has made a mistake.
03:25 The complainant went directly to the session court.
03:28 Although, this case should have gone to the session court through the magistrate.
03:32 Then the election commission wrote an objection to this decision.
03:35 Sir, this will be very interesting. You said that tomorrow this case will be heard again by the Chief Justice of Islamabad High Court, Amir Farooq.
03:42 Tomorrow, you will tell Amir Farooq that this judge has no right to hear this case.
03:52 You have also told the judges that you have no right to hear our case and you are going to the Supreme Judicial Council against them.
03:59 So, you will not trust Amir Farooq and you will tell him to remove him.
04:05 This will be very interesting.
04:07 No, I am not going to trust Abul Hasan Nath.
04:12 Sir, I am asking about the way of doing things.
04:15 As far as the Chief Justice is concerned, the complaint against him is of the Chairman of PTI.
04:25 We have already given him the reward for this.
04:30 Now, the Chief Justice has his own decision. Whatever he thinks is in accordance with the law and justice,
04:37 our job is to present the client's opinion in front of the court.
04:45 And we have presented it.
04:47 Let me tell you one thing, that tomorrow's case, the Chief Justice will have to look at two or three things on the administrative side.
04:54 Because the supervisory jurisdiction of the High Court is Article 203 in the Constitution.
05:02 Here, one thing that we have raised in this rate is that under Section 9 of the Military Code,
05:10 it is the authority of a loyal government to change the venue of any court.
05:17 Regarding the application of the Military Code, whether it is applicable, mutatis mutandi or as a whole,
05:27 it is not mentioned in this Act 1923, which is the Official Secret Act.
05:33 And if it is understood that it is being applied, then under Section 9,
05:40 this notification was to be made by the federal government or the Punjab government or the Islamabad government.
05:48 But this notification has been made by the law ministry, which does not have any right to the definition of the government.
05:56 The second thing is that this is what Abul Hasanat gave the judicial remand of the chairman of PTI.
06:02 We did not get the judicial remand for 14 days.
06:05 It is necessary for judicial remand that the accused is presented in court.
06:09 In the case of Abib ul Wabul Kheri, the Supreme Court has circulated to all the courts that you do not have to violate it.
06:19 Here, we know from 29th that the honorable judge has ordered him to be presented in his court for 30 days.
06:28 But on 29th, at 9 o'clock, the day after the notification of the law ministry is issued,
06:34 the judge arrives in the morning.
06:39 The judicial order was not superseded by any superior court.
06:44 He himself did not recall.
06:46 An administrative order superseded the judicial order.
06:50 And today, I spoke to the judge about this.
06:53 Now you are challenging all this.
06:55 Yes, I am present.
06:57 And sir, what is the status of the Supreme Judicial Council in the case of the Chief Justice of the Islamabad High Court?
07:02 Because this was also the decision of the Court Committee that the Supreme Judicial Council will go against him.
07:05 So, he has gone. What is the status?
07:07 This decision was not of the Court Committee.
07:11 This decision was of the Chairman of PTI.
07:14 And the Chairman of PTI gave an order from the jail, from the jail.
07:19 That if the Chief Justice does not transfer the case from his court,
07:24 because there are other honorable judges in the Islamabad High Court,
07:28 then he said that due to compulsion, there are six or seven complaints or allegations,
07:34 under which he said that even if I have to go to the Supreme Judicial Council,
07:38 but I do not accept the decision or the clarification of this case from the honorable Chief Justice of the Islamabad High Court.
07:45 So, so far, we have not acted on this matter, nor have we taken any further action.
07:54 Because when the Chief Justice met with the Chairman of PTI,
07:58 he had a discussion on this issue and that matter is not yet resolved.
08:04 Okay, the case of the Supreme Judicial Council has not yet been resolved.
08:07 And Mr. Marwad, did you have any doubt on that issue?
08:10 You yourself tweeted a while ago that you are a traitor in the PTI Court Committee,
08:15 they pass the information of our meeting to our opponents,
08:18 my own life is in danger because of them.
08:20 Then you deleted that post, that you said, I have been told to delete it.
08:23 Did you have any doubt on that?
08:26 No, I had doubt only when the Chairman of PTI will decide on this.
08:31 And this decision has been made.
08:33 The proceedings of the Court Committee have been recorded many times.
08:36 And then, apart from that, it was shared with a media anchor person.
08:42 He conducted our proceedings in live transmission.
08:47 And the same things, Mr. Umar Ayub,
08:49 he said in the meeting of the Court Committee that this is being leaked and it is being run.
08:55 And this is absolutely confirmed that there are such people inside us.
09:00 But this decision was made that when the Chairman of PTI will come out
09:06 or he will decide on this matter, then action will be taken.
09:11 So that's why I deleted that tweet and also gave this clarification.
09:16 Do you know who is responsible? And did you tell the Chairman of PTI that these people are responsible?
09:21 Yes, the Chairman of PTI knows. He knew before going to jail.
09:27 At one time, he had also made a decision, but later he stopped the action.
09:34 And when these things will be brought to his notice,
09:39 that the Court Committee, because now because of him the Court Committee has become practically dysfunctional.
09:45 No one can do anything.
09:48 Because you know that until the Court Committee is cleared of these people,
09:54 you have no objection.
09:56 And that is why the serious or secret matters in the Court Committee are now being avoided by discussing them.
10:06 Sir, this is exactly what you think.
10:09 One is that you ignore a person, that you record it and give it to some anchor.
10:13 You should not do it in the form of news. It is irresponsible.
10:15 That is a different matter.
10:16 One is that there are people sitting in the Court Committee who are together from above and against from within.
10:22 And they take the news and send it to the opponents.
10:25 Both are different things.
10:26 So are you sure that this is not just a matter of carelessness, it is a matter beyond that?
10:29 It is possible that you are exaggerating it.
10:31 It is a matter far beyond that.
10:33 It is a matter far beyond that.
10:35 And it was not just my complaint.
10:38 I have no interest in the party's matters.
10:42 These complaints were brought by those people who were encouraged by the Chairman of the PTI's notice to hold press conferences.
10:51 You go and join other parties.
10:54 And those people are still present in the Court Committee.
10:57 And these complaints were made by those people to the Chairman of the PTI.
11:01 So this is a very serious allegation and a serious matter.
11:05 It should be cleared.
11:07 And I will not talk about this issue anymore because Shibli Faraz and Umar Ayub, who are the ones who are looking at the matters after the Chairman of the PTI, have denied me this.
11:22 Absolutely right.
11:23 If you want, you can comment on one specific thing.
11:27 It is only related to Khulaishi.
11:29 He was the only person who was outside.
11:32 He is not outside anymore.
11:33 He was outside.
11:34 He was with his Chairman.
11:36 They are lawyers.
11:37 They are pure politicians.
11:38 He was outside and he was with the Chairman of the PTI.
11:41 He was in control of everything and he was not being arrested.
11:44 And there were no good things happening.
11:45 But some people said that this is a setting and that is why he is outside.
11:49 So you had no doubt about Mr. Khulaishi.
11:53 I have no doubt about Shah Mahmood Khulaishi.
11:58 And I have no indication towards him.
12:02 Absolutely right.
12:03 You have clarified this.
12:04 But Mr. Marwad, in a nutshell, what do you think, you have explained everything in legal terms,
12:10 but what do you think is the practical outcome?
12:15 Do you think that in the next few weeks or months, your client and Chairman will be in jail?
12:20 That one case will be left and they will wait for it to be over and for the second case to start so that you can bail him out and then 15-20 days will pass.
12:28 Do you think this will work?
12:30 Look, Chairman PTI, I will tell you in a few words what game or strategy is being played with us or with Chairman PTI.
12:42 The problems or difficulties of Chairman PTI start from the day when the punishment is not suspended in his appeal.
12:52 And this punishment is suspended after 25 or 24 days.
12:57 And this merit was there on the first day.
13:02 So when the merit was not suspended on the first day, the benefit was taken during this time and as a result of this benefit, 25 bail applications were issued by Chairman PTI.
13:16 The Cypher case was registered.
13:18 Now what they have done, the strategy they have made, you saw that the imprisonment of Chairman PTI is about to be 26 days.
13:27 But they have put the Cypher case in the notice of the Chairman PTI, that is, after 26 days.
13:37 Now this round will continue and more days will be wasted on it.
13:43 After this, their strategy will be that they are waiting for their imprisonment in the NEP case.
13:49 The law says that if a citizen is imprisoned in one case, then he will be imprisoned in all cases.
13:56 They have made a game that first they will imprison in one NEP case, then they will start the remand in that case.
14:03 And because of the departure of Alvi Sahib to Hajj, the remand has been suspended for 30 days.
14:09 So there are two NEP cases, they think that they will waste 60 days on this remand.
14:16 After this, the bail applications in the NEP cases will also take some time.
14:22 So they have an idea of ​​3-3.5 months that we will be able to keep Chairman PTI during this period.
14:30 What have we done, we have arranged our strategy in this regard.
14:34 And if we do it publicly, they will find another way.
14:41 So I can't share it now.
14:43 Absolutely. Thank you very much.
14:46 So, Shehzad Manohar Sahib says that they have made a counter strategy.
14:50 That the NEP will be put in other cases one after the other.
14:54 Not together so that everyone is not in the same situation.
14:56 One happened, now his bail is applied.
14:58 Like Tushar Khan was arrested, now his bail is suspended.
15:02 The suspension was over after 25 days.
15:04 So the second case came.
15:05 Now on his bail.
15:06 When it happens, people think that the next case will be of NEP.
15:08 Then another case will be of NEP.
15:10 He has a remand of 30 days.
15:11 In this way, in the next 3.5-4 months, they will be released in this jail.
15:15 They say that we have made a counter strategy for this.
15:16 Let's see what happens.
15:17 And let's talk to Naeem Pachoda, who is the legal advisor of Chairman PTI.
15:21 He is one of the four lawyers who have gone to Attock Jail today.
15:24 Where the cipher case has ended today.
15:27 And they have met again today with Chairman PTI.
15:29 Sir, thank you very much for your time.
15:30 Mr. Naeem, in this cipher case, there is one allegation that you have expressed irresponsibility.
15:36 You have lost the cipher.
15:37 So what is the official position taken by Chairman PTI, as a lawyer?
15:42 Because on record, he has said this in the interview of Maria Memon Sahiba on Arvay News.
15:46 That I had a copy, but I don't know where it has gone.
15:49 So what is the position taken in the court, where is the cipher copy?
15:52 Look, the first thing is that we were first put out of jail for half an hour.
16:01 And it was said that a lawyer is allowed.
16:03 And we repeatedly told the law of PTI that there is a restriction on meeting.
16:09 Six people can meet in a day.
16:11 And when the court has been transferred there, then we have the right to allow their counsel.
16:18 Then four lawyers were allowed and we met.
16:22 Now the second thing is that the question you asked about this case.
16:26 This case was filed under the Official Secret Act, which does not apply.
16:32 The cases filed under the Official Secret Act do not apply to this.
16:37 The contents of the FIR, I will also clarify that in front of you.
16:41 In the FIR, it is that this cipher was shared in the coded form with the relevant person and then it was not returned, it was stolen.
16:52 The thing is that when the cipher was present in the coded form, it is still in the Foreign Office.
17:01 This was also said by Mr. Khan that it was declassified by the Cabinet and then its copies were charged in various places.
17:11 Now the original form is still in the Foreign Office.
17:15 And we were saying that the FIA has also admitted that the original cipher is there.
17:24 When it was about the remand of Shah Mehmood Qureshi.
17:28 The second thing is that all this investigation has been done, all this secret has been done.
17:33 Neither the chairman of the PDI knows about it, nor do we know.
17:37 Today I asked Mr. Khan a clear question again and again.
17:41 Can you tell me if you knew about the arrest?
17:45 So Mr. Khan said that I do not know about the arrest.
17:49 I said that you were presented in a court.
17:51 He said that I was not presented in any court.
17:54 I told him that you were later told that your remand was done.
17:58 He said that I was not told that the remand was done.
18:01 I said that before today you knew that your arrest and remand had been done.
18:06 He said that I did not know anything that I was arrested or my remand was taken in some other case.
18:13 We have formally checked from the court from 15 to 22.
18:20 We have checked from there that is there any news about the arrest or remand.
18:25 Is there any such matter?
18:28 We were denied that there is no such matter.
18:31 So you contested this in court today.
18:33 You were in court today.
18:34 You said that you were in jail where the court was held.
18:36 Look, before going to our court, because we were stopped outside.
18:40 And on the phone, the reader is saying that we have done the remand for 14 days.
18:45 You come, your duty is to be fulfilled.
18:48 Before you reached the court, there was a process that was done.
18:51 The remand was done for 14 days.
18:53 Because they did all the proceedings before, just by saying that you are not present.
18:58 Now we went there.
19:00 We gave three requests there.
19:02 We gave one because we saw that they told that this is already remanded.
19:06 Which I told you yesterday that Article 10.1 clearly says that you have to tell it and present it within 24 hours.
19:14 Both things did not happen.
19:16 We went and applied for a pre-arrest bail.
19:19 Sorry, post-arrest bail.
19:21 That after bail, we should be arrested.
19:26 We asked for a second request.
19:29 In this regard, the notification that Mr. Marwat told you.
19:33 We did that.
19:34 We asked to set aside.
19:36 We did the third one, that an open trial should be done.
19:38 We gave that under Section 14 of the Official Secret Act.
19:42 That there should be an open trial.
19:44 Because this is a political matter.
19:46 It is just that there is a threat from there.
19:49 And you should see this first.
19:51 First this was said.
19:53 So you have raised a point.
19:54 What did the court say about this?
19:56 What did the court say when the point was raised today?
19:58 Yes, there were three requests on this.
20:03 That is, the government will issue an archive on the next date.
20:07 And when is the next hearing?
20:08 On the 2nd, there will be a hearing on this.
20:11 Where will it be?
20:12 And this hearing will be in the Judicial Complex.
20:14 In Islamabad?
20:15 Yes.
20:16 So will the Chairman of the PTI come?
20:18 Or is his presence not necessary in that hearing?
20:20 No, his presence is not necessary in that hearing.
20:24 The reason for that is that when it comes to the bail matter or other requests,
20:28 then presence is not necessary.
20:29 Because his presence is not necessary,
20:31 he is not a security agent,
20:32 that is why he will be in Islamabad for the next hearing.
20:35 Not that he is in jail.
20:36 No, he has done all the proceedings in jail for security reasons.
20:44 We have challenged him.
20:46 But he will not come here because it is not required.
20:49 When you have to argue on bail,
20:52 then when the post arrest is bailed,
20:54 there is no need for the accused to be present.
20:56 But sir, please tell us,
20:58 the physical remand that has been contested,
21:01 for the physical remand,
21:06 it is necessary that the person who is being asked for physical remand,
21:10 his presence is necessary.
21:12 This is what the law says.
21:13 Yes, you are right.
21:14 And you said that he has not called me anywhere.
21:16 Okay, what else did he say in the meeting today?
21:18 Apart from this case, what else did he say in the meeting?
21:21 See, the special things that happened in the meeting,
21:25 one is that we requested earlier,
21:27 I asked again about the Supreme Judicial Council matter,
21:30 they said that we should definitely do it,
21:33 regarding the Chief Justice.
21:35 And secondly, I said that...
21:39 So, in today's meeting, they said that you should go to the Supreme Judicial Council
21:42 against the Chief Justice of Islamabad.
21:44 Absolutely.
21:45 Okay, in clear words.
21:46 Absolutely.
21:47 All right.
21:48 Absolutely clear.
21:49 And this has been conveyed again.
21:50 And the court committee has also made a decision on this.
21:52 It will be implemented.
21:54 And they said that we should implement it.
21:56 The second thing that happened was that the election committee
22:01 told about the Supreme Judicial Council of Pakistan,
22:06 and they were very satisfied with it.
22:09 And overall, they were asking a lot about workers.
22:11 I asked them other things,
22:13 the talks about facilities were going on.
22:16 Is the food, meat, and all that going on?
22:18 What was going on?
22:20 I asked them,
22:22 I asked them, what kind of position do you have?
22:25 Why are these things going on on social media?
22:27 Tell me about it.
22:28 They said that things are better than before,
22:31 but it doesn't make a difference to me.
22:33 You can say bad things about it,
22:35 you can put it in class,
22:37 you can put it in D class,
22:38 it doesn't make a difference to me.
22:39 It's good that you say it's better than before.
22:41 Sir, the last question, the last minute,
22:43 from where I started,
22:44 if you are asked,
22:45 okay, you told me about Saifur,
22:47 that he is coded, this and that,
22:49 call it a copy of Saifur, whatever you want to call it,
22:51 they said that on record,
22:53 it came to the office,
22:54 but I don't know where it went.
22:55 So what is your official opinion on this?
22:57 Whether it was found or not,
22:58 what is it that was lost?
22:59 You gave an opinion in the team interview,
23:01 what is the opinion in the court?
23:02 Where did it go?
23:03 The copy that came from the foreign office,
23:05 was forwarded and came to the PM's office,
23:07 and the custodian of the PM's office is the PM.
23:11 He has a staff,
23:12 he has a secretary,
23:13 the entire staff is sitting below.
23:14 So the PM doesn't have to do any security documents,
23:18 as many minutes he has to wait.
23:19 Sir is saying that whatever is lost,
23:21 it is lost from the PM's office,
23:22 and it is not the PM's responsibility,
23:24 but the staff.
23:25 It is not the PM's responsibility,
23:26 it is his staff.
23:27 If it is lost,
23:29 the first thing should be there,
23:31 and if it is lost,
23:32 then definitely the custodian is not the PM's,
23:34 it is his staff.
23:35 Thank you very much sir.
23:36 Thank you very much.
23:37 Let's take a break after the break.
23:38 Let's talk to Mr. Chaudhary Ittizad Ahsan,
23:40 as a law expert,
23:41 as People's Party Senior Leadership,
23:44 and some other innocent questions after the break.
23:50 So without any further ado,
23:51 we can say that the senior leader of the Pakistan People's Party,
23:53 member of the Central Executive Committee,
23:55 Mr. Chaudhary Ittizad Ahsan is with us.
23:58 Mr. Chaudhary, Assalamualaikum.
23:59 Assalamualaikum.
24:01 I said this because in the last few days,
24:04 I don't know if it is a coincidence or not,
24:06 that I don't know,
24:07 in fact I will not say it is a coincidence,
24:09 because there are news that the notice has been served,
24:12 the basic membership,
24:13 I saw this interview today in the archives,
24:15 so there was news on 21st June or July,
24:18 that the basic membership of Mr. Chaudhary Ittizad Ahsan has been given.
24:22 This is why everyone was surprised when you reached there,
24:24 in the Central Executive Committee's address.
24:26 So anyway, you never received any such notice, right?
24:29 Am I right?
24:30 No, no, no, I never received it.
24:32 But this,
24:34 I have done this in almost all the meetings,
24:38 I have never received any.
24:39 But there was participation through my Zoom.
24:45 Right.
24:46 I couldn't see it on Zoom,
24:48 so people said it must not have come.
24:50 We have done a hybrid arrangement through Zoom.
24:55 So that those who reached,
24:57 also sit and those who are on Zoom,
24:59 also get involved.
25:02 Message.
25:03 During this time,
25:04 did you ever receive any notice of any kind,
25:06 like show cause, etc.
25:08 No, no.
25:10 Right.
25:11 So, did this CEC also have any unhappiness?
25:15 Or was there any issue with this?
25:17 Or because you were going to CEC,
25:19 you just went physically,
25:21 otherwise you were going on Zoom,
25:22 so you didn't have any such issues.
25:24 No, no, no.
25:26 So all this discussion,
25:27 the hype was only to the extent of the media.
25:29 That Mr. Ittizad has come,
25:30 this means something new is going to happen.
25:32 Nothing else.
25:34 I am a politician from Lahore,
25:36 so in everyone's own circle,
25:38 whether it is the Prime Minister or the President,
25:43 in their own circle,
25:45 and some people from one circle,
25:47 they also become opponents of him.
25:49 My opposition is here.
25:51 And the party's friends also,
25:55 many of them don't like me,
25:59 so what is their right,
26:02 to keep their opinion,
26:04 on my opposition.
26:06 Right.
26:07 And this is not the first time,
26:09 I remember,
26:10 a few years ago also,
26:11 there was a market for such rumours,
26:12 then it was 27th December,
26:13 God forbid,
26:14 I was there myself.
26:15 Not only did you come there,
26:17 in that rumour,
26:18 if I remember correctly,
26:19 Mr. Zardari had made you give a speech after him,
26:21 or right before him.
26:22 There was a situation like this,
26:23 which ended the impression,
26:26 that there are some differences,
26:28 of Mr. Ittizad.
26:29 That maybe...
26:30 Mr. Zardari,
26:32 was giving a speech,
26:34 when I reached there,
26:40 and his speech started,
26:45 and was going on.
26:46 Right.
26:47 So he saw me and said,
26:48 I will finish,
26:49 and I will talk to you.
26:51 Yes, yes, yes.
26:52 Right.
26:53 Okay, Mr. Chaudhary,
26:54 this is after you,
26:55 but as a group,
26:56 because you are a historian,
26:57 you have written books,
26:58 and you have a deep view on history,
27:00 you have read a lot, of course.
27:01 When all this history will be written,
27:04 I am talking about this era,
27:07 do you think the People's Party,
27:09 is standing in the right direction of history,
27:11 or not?
27:12 The People's Party is standing in the right direction,
27:17 that the People's Party,
27:19 is against the Jamaat-e-Jammu-l-Ayyat,
27:23 which is against bringing religion into politics,
27:30 and promoting it through religion,
27:35 is against this,
27:38 which is a popular practice.
27:41 And being a progressive party,
27:46 it is on the right side of history.
27:48 This is in the context of Mansoor and Soch,
27:49 Liberal Progressive Party,
27:50 that's fine.
27:51 But in these circumstances,
27:53 one government that has gone,
27:56 and has been said to have been overthrown,
28:01 if that is true,
28:02 then the People's Party was also among those who were overthrown,
28:04 and was overthrown in a different way,
28:05 that is what they say,
28:06 that the rest are foreign powers,
28:09 and local establishments,
28:11 in this current environment,
28:13 am I right or not?
28:15 Yes, yes,
28:17 overall the People's Party is right.
28:21 This is the character of the People's Party.
28:24 It has no secularism,
28:26 it has no such things,
28:29 the People's Party has more democracy,
28:32 now see, I have also been in a different party,
28:36 people have said,
28:38 that it is a mess,
28:40 it is not a problem.
28:43 The temperament of the People's Party,
28:45 the People's Party is a family.
28:47 Sir, if I quote a few incidents,
28:50 then you tell me,
28:51 the democratic norms that we used to refer to,
28:53 or hear about the People's Party,
28:55 are they going with it?
28:56 For example, here in Karachi,
28:57 there is an election of the Mayor,
28:58 in the number game it is clear that,
28:59 there are fewer people of the People's Party,
29:00 and more opponents,
29:01 but 32 people of the opponents don't come that day,
29:04 and you know why they don't come.
29:06 This kind of thing,
29:07 this is just one example,
29:08 I can quote a few other examples as well,
29:10 the People's Party,
29:11 the democratic norms,
29:13 that we use to refer to,
29:16 are they going with it?
29:19 See, now,
29:21 if someone is investigating this,
29:24 if someone is not present,
29:27 and says that we have stopped it from Nauravri,
29:30 and the police are standing outside our house,
29:33 that means they are saying something,
29:36 it is not that you used to come,
29:39 but there were no refugees,
29:42 so this should be there,
29:45 that without this,
29:47 how can you think?
29:49 You see,
29:50 the People's Party has ruled three times,
29:55 twice in the form of Shaheed,
29:58 the third time,
30:00 Jitendra Zardari and Raja Parveer Dakshi,
30:04 but in fact,
30:05 President Zardari,
30:08 from the Presidential Office,
30:12 he was also the head of the People's Party,
30:15 then after,
30:16 he was,
30:17 and the fourth chairman,
30:18 Bilal Bin Zayed,
30:20 came of age,
30:21 so,
30:22 in these three governments,
30:24 how can you say that we have kept a political prisoner?
30:31 I was the Interior Minister,
30:34 and I used to invite people,
30:36 and I used to say,
30:38 I will give you the keys to every jail in Pakistan,
30:43 you go and open a jail,
30:46 and then come back,
30:47 and say that we have kept a political prisoner.
30:50 Sir,
30:51 where the People's Party government is now,
30:54 it is not there today,
30:55 it was there a few days ago,
30:56 so there was a crackdown against Tehreek-e-Insaab,
30:58 it was going on,
30:59 for the last few months,
31:01 and the government of the People's Party,
31:03 it is not the government of the People's Party,
31:06 it is the People's Party.
31:08 I am talking about a few days ago.
31:10 The way the opposition is being held,
31:15 the way the police are holding them,
31:17 and the way they are being arrested,
31:19 that is not a bad thing,
31:22 that is not our kind of,
31:26 that is not,
31:28 so to say,
31:30 our style,
31:31 it is not according to our style,
31:33 and the way they have run it,
31:36 like Rana Sanaullah formula,
31:39 that there is a jail in one case,
31:42 so they come out of the jail,
31:44 and they catch him in the other case,
31:48 he comes back after 3 days,
31:50 and they catch him again,
31:52 he comes back after 4 days,
31:54 and they catch him again,
31:56 if this is Rana Sanaullah formula,
31:58 they would have at least made him a non-religious person,
32:01 if not for the opposition,
32:02 the People's Party supported him.
32:04 I am a Muslim.
32:06 Okay.
32:07 I am a Muslim.
32:09 This is not something to be happy about,
32:13 or something to be proud of,
32:16 this is a disgrace to the country.
32:19 Pakistan has said that,
32:21 the court releases a person,
32:23 and they arrest him,
32:25 the court releases him again,
32:28 the court releases him again,
32:31 17 times in one case.
32:34 Correct.
32:35 Mr. Ittida,
32:36 do you think that the elections will be held in 90 days?
32:41 Because the CCI has given the approval,
32:44 that there will be a referendum,
32:45 after which there will be a delimitation,
32:46 okay, I don't want to go into that debate,
32:48 that there can't be an increase in seats,
32:50 because a reform is needed for that,
32:51 and a parliament is needed for that,
32:52 so that's not it.
32:53 But anyway, there are new referendums being held.
32:55 Do you think that the elections will be held in 90 days?
32:58 I don't think so.
33:00 I don't think so.
33:02 It will be held in 90 days.
33:04 Mr. Ittida,
33:05 it seems that if there is no referendum,
33:08 then the reason for that,
33:09 whatever the intention is,
33:11 the reason for that is,
33:12 that the CCI has said that,
33:14 the elections will be held under the new census,
33:16 so there will be a delimitation,
33:17 and that's why we need time.
33:19 Now, the People's Party is the only party,
33:20 that is insisting that,
33:21 no, sir, the elections will be held in 90 days.
33:23 So, the People's Party would not have supported this in the CCI.
33:26 The People's Party had the right,
33:27 they had a minister sitting there,
33:28 they wouldn't have done it,
33:29 so that they could make it a force,
33:30 so that no one would get a chance in the elections.
33:32 Yes, the People's Party,
33:35 today I heard,
33:37 Mr. Kundi,
33:43 Yes.
33:44 He was also a little,
33:46 regretful about this,
33:50 that why did we listen to these things.
33:54 And,
33:56 I have been saying this from the beginning,
34:00 I have been saying this,
34:01 I have been saying this,
34:02 that these elections will not be held,
34:05 that they have put us in a dilemma.
34:09 And, this is his primary,
34:11 his primary responsibility,
34:14 that is the elections.
34:17 But you think,
34:18 because if this bullet is fired now,
34:19 your shoulder will also be used.
34:21 So, you think that ideally,
34:22 if it was your opinion,
34:23 then you would have said,
34:24 that we should not vote for him in the CCI,
34:25 so that at least we can
34:26 give ourselves a fair responsibility.
34:28 No, our shoulder is now,
34:31 it has been removed.
34:35 And, we are taking it from the Noonwale.
34:38 The Noonwale have gone to London,
34:41 they have run away from death.
34:44 They have said that
34:46 Nawaz Sharif is not possible to come.
34:49 Yesterday,
34:51 the press conference that both the brothers did,
34:54 and I was surprised,
34:58 I was surprised,
35:01 that how much fear was seen on their faces.
35:06 So, you don't think Nawaz Sharif
35:07 is coming back, Tizhar sir, still?
35:09 No, no, no, no, he is not coming now.
35:11 Okay, because they say that
35:13 only in September, Bandiyal sir is going,
35:14 in October, Nawaz Sharif is coming.
35:15 You don't think that
35:16 Nawaz Sharif is coming in October?
35:17 Strange.
35:18 No, no, I don't think so.
35:20 Bandiyal would be very fair to him,
35:23 why would Bandiyal be prejudiced against him?
35:28 Bandiyal's entire family
35:31 is with the Noon League,
35:33 and this is,
35:36 this is not,
35:38 I am not so,
35:40 I am not so,
35:42 I would expect Bandiyal to do justice according to law,
35:47 he is a little slow,
35:49 he is a little indecisive,
35:54 but he is not an angry,
36:00 short-circuited judge.
36:03 Not very aggressive?
36:06 Not aggressive, decent judge.
36:09 Judicial activism,
36:12 has he been too kind to Chairman PTI,
36:15 like the People's Party or the Noon League?
36:18 You think that is the case?
36:20 Not at all.
36:22 It is a normal routine.
36:24 Bandiyal has told Ahsan Iqbal
36:27 that he is a great scholar,
36:29 and a great leader.
36:31 Now, we have started saying that
36:34 Bandiyal has joined the Noon League,
36:38 and he has joined the Noon League.
36:40 Now that his time is about to end,
36:42 it is a matter of a few days,
36:44 so if I ask you,
36:46 in the shortest possible words,
36:48 describe his tenure,
36:50 how did he fulfill his responsibilities?
36:52 You are their senior.
36:54 Who?
36:55 Bandiyal.
36:56 Bandiyal?
36:57 Bandiyal has fulfilled his responsibilities very well.
37:01 Now, a few cases he has,
37:05 if he gives his judgement,
37:09 I don't know what he will say,
37:13 but if he closes them,
37:16 it will be a big benefit.
37:18 It will be a golden era.
37:20 Whenever there is an election,
37:22 if it is free and fair,
37:23 which party has a better chance to win the elections?
37:26 Whenever there is a free and fair election,
37:30 and
37:32 in Punjab and northern Pakistan,
37:38 I think it will be PGI.
37:42 Singh will be People's Party.
37:44 Balochistan will be,
37:46 Balochistan is just a small part of it.
37:51 There are all kinds of seeds in that lentil.
37:55 So, Balochistan will be a coalition.
37:59 A loose coalition.
38:00 And KPK?
38:02 KPK?
38:04 Terry King's?
38:06 Hmm.
38:07 That's right.
38:09 And in the times to come,
38:11 is there any possibility that
38:13 PTI and People's Party will be a coalition post-election?
38:17 Or is it a far-off possibility?
38:19 Or is it possible?
38:21 No.
38:22 Vaseem,
38:23 this is an innocent question.
38:26 The answer is very innocent.
38:28 Innocent.
38:30 I am also innocent.
38:32 And the answer is that in Pakistan,
38:34 you don't do anything but the past.
38:38 You do nothing but the past.
38:41 So, anything can happen.
38:43 I have not taken any oath against each other.
38:50 But,
38:52 the world is enough.
38:54 Towards the end,
38:55 where we started,
38:56 you said that People's Party is more than this.
38:59 There is a lot of disagreement in People's Party.
39:01 No one has said anything to me.
39:03 Do you regret that
39:05 the President,
39:07 Mr. Mustafa Nawaz Khokhar,
39:09 he was not lucky enough.
39:10 He disagreed on some things.
39:12 So, he was sent a message that
39:14 please go and leave the party.
39:16 And he had to leave.
39:17 Only then could he express his heart.
39:20 Are you sad about it?
39:21 If there was a disagreement,
39:22 what happened?
39:24 Whenever there is a disagreement,
39:26 if it is someone's party,
39:28 everyone should have some pain.
39:32 And,
39:34 especially if there is a separation from the party,
39:38 I don't want to be separated.
39:40 First of all,
39:41 when they run away,
39:43 and do press conference,
39:45 and the police station wall is removed,
39:50 and goes to the other party.
39:52 One is to be released unwillingly.
39:57 I feel sad about it.
39:59 I have a friend,
40:01 Mr. Shashid Daan.
40:02 Why did the party do this?
40:04 Should I make it easy by reading the poem?
40:06 There must have been some helplessness.
40:08 People are not unfaithful.
40:09 So, the party must have been helpless.
40:11 No,
40:13 there is no need to tell the judge
40:19 what was the purpose of this.
40:24 Everybody knows the purpose.
40:26 But then I am surprised.
40:27 If the reason was what I think,
40:29 and what you think,
40:30 then why didn't the reason come in Mr. Ittizas's case?
40:32 I am glad that it didn't happen,
40:33 but why didn't it happen?
40:34 If it was a matter of pressure,
40:35 then it would have been said that
40:36 we should also say thank you to Mr. Ittizas.
40:38 If you say this 2-3 times more,
40:41 then it will be over.
40:42 No, no, no.
40:44 Say it.
40:45 Then I will...
40:46 Then I will conclude this argument.
40:48 I didn't want to go ahead.
40:49 I am not your...
40:50 I am not your enemy.
40:52 I have not left the people's party.
40:56 It is my family.
40:58 I have slept on the floor with their blessed people.
41:04 In the lock-up.
41:06 And they are very generous people.
41:11 And it's my family.
41:13 I would like to be excluded from that.
41:16 The last question is so much.
41:18 Absolutely. I have noted, sir.
41:19 But if there is oppression with any other politician,
41:25 which is unprecedented,
41:28 that you can do a case against me,
41:31 I am a lawyer.
41:32 I will have the opportunity to defend myself,
41:35 but I will be out of my mind.
41:38 So these things have to be done.
41:41 Rana Sanaw Allah and his...
41:47 whatever he has done,
41:49 he has brought a new thing,
41:51 I will raise my voice.
41:53 I will raise my voice.
41:55 Sir, my final question.
41:57 The biggest problem of people right now is electricity bills,
42:00 petrol,
42:01 a storm of inflation.
42:03 Sir, when the list of responsible people is arranged,
42:05 then the name of the people's party will also come.
42:07 These are the electricity bills of the previous government tenure,
42:10 which have made people scream.
42:11 People's party was part of it, of course.
42:13 People's party was not only a part of it,
42:14 but it was an indispensable part of it.
42:16 If the people's party was separated for a second,
42:18 the government would have collapsed.
42:19 So the name of the people's party will also come.
42:22 The name of the people's party will definitely come.
42:25 Undoubtedly, it will come.
42:26 We are all together.
42:27 But the government,
42:29 the government of Shahbaz Sharif,
42:31 Prime Minister Shahbaz Sharif,
42:33 Interior Minister Rana Sanaw Allah,
42:35 Law Minister Adam Nazeer Tarrar,
42:39 Defence Minister Khwaja Asif,
42:43 and your...
42:45 I don't remember the name.
42:48 This Tarar...
42:51 Atta Tarar, sir.
42:53 Atta Tarar.
42:54 Then Azam Nazir.
42:55 All these people are doing D.F.Bating.
42:59 D.F.Bating.
43:00 The central government is responsible for the electricity bill,
43:02 and then the people's party.
43:03 They have to do it this way.
43:05 No, the government has to do it this way.
43:07 We have the power of electricity and water.
43:11 They had the power of water.
43:13 Khurram Dastgir.
43:14 No, no.
43:15 We had...
43:16 Khurshid had the power of water.
43:17 The power of Tawanai was with Khurram.
43:20 Khurshid Shah had the power of water.
43:22 Yes, with Khurram.
43:24 And we had climate change,
43:28 the foreign office,
43:30 and the good way they were running,
43:33 Nareen Tamar was responsible for it.
43:35 Thank you.
43:36 Thank you very much.
43:37 Chaudhary Ittizad Ahsan was with us.
43:39 We will conclude after the break.
43:41 Before we go,
43:45 what Chaudhary Ittizad Ahsan said,
43:47 that we were in power,
43:48 but look,
43:49 Khurram Dastgir and all the senior officials
43:51 found out that this is the statement of the next election
43:53 of all the parties.
43:54 That everyone has to say that
43:56 all this has happened,
43:57 the expensive things,
43:58 we were in power,
43:59 but what was our connection with the people?
44:01 So, they took a noose.
44:02 And everyone has to face their problems in this way.
44:04 Tomorrow's three-way,
44:05 today's issues will be faced.
44:07 This has been the narrative of the election.
44:09 In the coming elections, everyone's.
44:11 If life is healthy,
44:12 we will meet tomorrow, Inshallah.
44:13 Allah Hafiz.