Global Convening For The Restitution Of African Heritage: Open Society Foundation hosts conference

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00:00 Welcome back to the AIM show and let's delve a bit deeper into us, I mean our being as

00:08 African people and people of African descent.

00:12 And I'm coming to you and have this discussion with people who are really, you know, have

00:18 committed themselves to trying to reunite the African people with our forefathers and

00:28 what happened to them and the need for the West to really, I mean for lack of a better

00:35 word, pay for what really happened to us so many decades ago or centuries ago.

00:41 I have in the studio Ibrahim Akkan, a special advisor at Open Society Foundation and also

00:49 I have Veronica Satterlane, Senior Programs Officer with the Open Society Foundation.

00:56 Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome.

00:59 Thank you.

01:00 Why is it so important for us at this time, you know, to have these frank discussions

01:08 about restitution of African cultural heritage?

01:12 Well, you know, we are at a turning point in international relation.

01:19 You heard about the prospect for African countries to get a seat at the G20.

01:25 You heard about the meeting of the BRICS.

01:28 Yeah, which is currently ongoing.

01:31 I think we are at the crossroad where it's important for Africans to really design the

01:41 way they want to see international relations conducted.

01:46 You know, we were subject.

01:48 We want to be an actor.

01:51 And to be an actor, you need also to bring on the table issues that are really of importance

02:01 to you, your community and the continent.

02:05 And in that prospect, you know, revisiting the past is really very important for all

02:11 of us.

02:12 Revisiting the past to know who did what, but also to make sure that in the future we

02:18 will avoid the same problem, we will avoid the same mistakes.

02:23 I think that's what it is.

02:25 And also, the heritage we are talking about, it's part of our life.

02:32 It's that heritage that distinct us from other communities in the world.

02:38 And some of them were looted in a very violent manner.

02:43 Some of them were taken probably for more study.

02:49 Now that they've done the study, that they've done everything, we want this thing back to

02:53 our community because we want our community, you know, the young generation that is coming

02:58 in our society to also learn about their own history, their own heritage, and to start

03:06 thinking on using those elements to build their own future.

03:13 You know, the future depends on us particularly, and this is what we want them to do.

03:19 And to be able to do that, we have to bring, you know, this gathering that we are having

03:24 this week in Accra, it's all the black from the world because we have all been victims

03:33 somehow of, you know, practices that nobody can accept now.

03:39 So we want together to think about our own future.

03:43 We want together to also design the new way we want to be part of the world.

03:53 Why must I bother about restitution?

03:57 I mean, after so many years, why should I even be bothered by it?

04:03 Very interesting question.

04:06 You know, if I can take an image, after the restitution, I think you will not be dressing

04:15 like this in the future.

04:16 I'll change it.

04:17 You will change it.

04:18 I'll wear my kete.

04:19 It's a way of changing our mindset.

04:23 It's a way of making us real Africans, knowing who we are, where we are coming from, and

04:30 what we want, where we want to go.

04:33 Because it's not just about symbolism.

04:36 It's also about our economy, our politics, our culture, everything.

04:42 You know, if something is restituted, it will help the community first to know itself, but

04:50 it will also help the community to think about how in the future to get better organized,

04:58 to get better structured, you know, maybe the way of dressing can change.

05:05 The way we design buildings can change.

05:08 Many, many, many things can change.

05:10 And that's why we need, and it's timely because we are in international relations, you know,

05:17 for example, that the decolonization is really ending at this moment.

05:24 France is no longer what it was.

05:26 It's a pretty sad, but that's a good momentum for all of us to reshape, you know, our relationship

05:36 with the rest of the world, but to also think about what we are bringing on the new international

05:42 relations.

05:43 Veronica, this has some political implications.

05:47 What are these?

05:48 I think that's a better question for Ibrahima.

05:51 Oh, Ibrahima.

05:52 Okay, then take it from me.

05:54 What are the political implications of all of this?

05:56 The political implication is first, Africa will no longer accept the way it was treated

06:06 in the future.

06:07 The political implication is for us as African to determine how we think ourself in terms

06:17 of our political relationship among African states.

06:23 You know, for example, in this restitution issue, we had to adopt an African common position

06:32 on how restitution should be done.

06:34 We are not going to the Western world divided.

06:37 We are going to the Western world united, having accepted the same strategy, having

06:44 adopted the same strategy.

06:46 And also, when these things are restituted, it's for the whole continent.

06:54 At the time it was looted, there was no Ghana, no Mali, no Guinea, no Nigeria, no Kenya.

07:03 So when it's come back to us, it's a tool for reuniting us, for making sure that we

07:10 know each other, our culture, our tradition.

07:13 Those are very, very important in the context where we are all talking about integration,

07:19 we are talking about African unity.

07:21 This is the time.

07:22 And I think also as part of African unity is we've been told who we are, we've been

07:27 told how to dress, we've been told how to do our hair.

07:30 And I think that it's not just about restituting these objects, it's about restituting the

07:35 knowledge systems of what our ancestors were trying to teach us that has been stolen from

07:41 us.

07:42 So rather than going to school and learning Western forms of education, we'll be able

07:46 to now design our own forms of education and really learn about our own histories.

07:52 Because the people of African descent, whether you are abroad, whether you're from here,

07:57 Caribbean, US, whatever, we are divided.

08:01 Asian communities are not divided, Western communities are not divided, the black community

08:05 is the only community that has been divided by the West.

08:09 So now we'll be able to not just repatriate our objects and our heritage and human remains,

08:14 but also ourselves and who we are so that we're able to create our own blueprint of

08:19 what the future looks like.

08:22 Imperialism is crumbling and this is the most opportune time to move forward with what we

08:27 want to see the future of Africa.

08:30 So are we looking at a geographical location to say, bring back everything you took from

08:36 Africa to Africa, because we know we have our brothers and sisters in Haiti, for example,

08:41 in Barbados, in Jamaica, all of these people are Africans, but they have been taking out

08:46 of there the geographical location of the continent.

08:51 Is that what the focus is?

08:54 I think it's both.

08:55 I think it's both geographical, but I think it's also, like Ibrahim Akan said, it extends

09:01 beyond what borders are because borders were something that were created by the West.

09:07 So I think that to answer your question, it depends on the region, right?

09:12 Like for Haiti and Barbados, our restitution is more so reparations.

09:16 What was the financial loss of that?

09:19 Because our objects were left in Africa, right?

09:21 And then for the continent, it's more land, it's more artifacts, it's more human remains.

09:27 But I think as a person of African descent, reparations are owed to us no matter where

09:32 the geography is.

09:35 Okay.

09:37 How is open society pushing this movement that we're in now?

09:42 Yeah, I mean, I think an example of that is this conference.

09:46 This is the first conference on the continent that has brought together such a diverse set

09:51 of stakeholders, ranging from artists, creative communities.

09:54 We have representatives from the African Union, ECOWAS, former president of Sierra Leone,

10:00 Ernest Baikorama, was there to give the opening and the keynote was President Nana.

10:05 So it's very rare that this has been done on such a great level.

10:12 And Open Society, about two years ago, we launched this initiative for the restitution

10:17 of African heritage.

10:19 So over the span of two years, we've been able to support African-led organizations

10:25 with a budget of just at $10 million to help push the dial on this.

10:31 And that includes convenings, that includes collaborating with the African Union for the

10:35 Common Position document, supporting ECOWAS, and also supporting the real activists that

10:41 are on the ground in the community and civil society.

10:45 Interesting.

10:46 So, Mr. Ibrahim, we're having this discussion on restitution.

10:50 Someone may probably be asking him or herself now, so what is this African heritage restitution

10:56 we're talking about?

10:58 How would you answer that question?

11:00 Well, it's many things.

11:02 You know, people started with the restitution of artifacts.

11:07 But then when you read the AU Common African Position, it's talking about heritage resources,

11:15 because it's not limited to artifacts that were stolen.

11:19 It's related to many, many -- she talked about human remains.

11:23 But when you go, for example, on the scientific area, universities, many of our knowledge

11:32 was stolen.

11:33 And we want that knowledge back in our universities, so that our universities can teach those -- you

11:42 know, have many, many resources that they can use to teach Africans their own history,

11:48 their own science, their own culture, and everything.

11:52 So it's really, really very large.

11:55 Now, sometimes the request is done by communities.

12:00 Sometimes the request is done by the state itself.

12:03 But usually it's done by communities.

12:06 And because we are in international relation, and international relation is relation between

12:12 states, communities have to go through the states to make their claim accepted, or at

12:19 least to continue to pursue the claim at the international level.

12:24 For example, I come from Senegal.

12:28 Many African communities used to make claims, but the claim used to go to the French Ministry

12:33 of Foreign Affairs.

12:34 Okay.

12:35 So the Ministry of Foreign Affairs will examine the claim.

12:39 But to continue the conversation, they need the states, either Benin or Senegal or Mali,

12:49 to continue the conversation, because it requires, you know, a relationship between two states.

12:56 And then when they are successful, the artifacts will come back, or, you know, the heritage

13:04 resources will come back, and now given back to the community.

13:08 And for the community to decide what to do with the artifact, because this was not stolen

13:14 in a museum.

13:15 We don't know.

13:16 The concept, the Western concept of museum is not our concept.

13:20 It was coming from, you know, royal houses, and, you know, sometimes even in places that

13:29 worship places.

13:30 Like family homes, shrines.

13:33 Exactly, exactly.

13:35 And the jewelry, you know, in the French system, what the military used to do, every time they

13:42 conquer a space, they would go after the family, the royal families, and steal all the jewelry.

13:49 For example, in France now, Senegal, a community in Senegal is claiming the jewelry of their

13:56 own family.

13:57 You know, and it was coming from a French general.

14:02 Okay.

14:03 So, very interesting things.

14:05 But what will we see for you, the Open Society, and all of us to know that we have achieved

14:12 the objective for this restitution?

14:15 Well, I think there's many goals, right?

14:20 Our goal is, yes, we must bring these artifacts back, but bringing them back is not enough.

14:26 There's financial loss that needs to be repatriated.

14:30 There's knowledge systems, and there's healing that needs to happen.

14:33 There's healing that needs to happen between communities.

14:36 There's healing that needs to happen amongst ourselves, and there's healing that needs

14:41 to happen within states.

14:42 So I think there's not just one goal.

14:46 There's many, many goals, but right now we're focusing on getting the objects back.

14:50 And, you know, my colleague Ibrahima here, he just said something very important that

14:55 the West, their version of what a museum is, is not what ours is.

15:00 And I think that, you know, in order for Africa to strive when it comes to the museum space,

15:05 we need to think about what a museum is and why are we bringing back these objects, also

15:10 to just have them sitting behind glass.

15:13 What does that teach us?

15:14 So I think that this is a very opportune time for us to really rethink and reframe how we

15:19 want to move forward with these objects, with our future.

15:23 And really, you know, we should not be going to the West.

15:25 The West should be coming to us.

15:28 And I'll leave it at that.

15:30 Can I also add something, which is really very important?

15:34 What we discover in collaborating with community and state is that we created a situation whereby

15:41 the state itself realized that it doesn't have the mechanics, it doesn't have the institution,

15:48 the infrastructure, not only to communicate with the community, but also to discuss, to

15:55 negotiate with the other, the external actors.

16:00 So mechanisms are being set, put in place in many, many countries.

16:07 And even ECOAS, the AU, have now taken up the issues and making it their own issues.

16:15 Interesting.

16:16 Really, like I told you yesterday, I pray that we regularly have this kind of conversations

16:21 because look, yesterday when we spoke about this, my hometown people were all over because

16:27 then it brought to memory our king who was beheaded.

16:32 And it started a whole discussion.

16:34 So I think we need to have more of that to serve as a source by which we try to reignite

16:40 the African in us and to help us struggle for what is ours.

16:43 But there's this Shalewate Festival that is happening now.

16:47 I don't know if you know about it.

16:49 You know about it?

16:50 Yeah.

16:51 Was it a coincidence that this event is being done at the same time we're doing this?

16:57 Yes.

16:58 I mean, I think we did know Shalewate was happening.

17:02 I'm very aware of the street festival, but it was strictly coincidence.

17:07 But I think the universe is guiding us and saying that this is important and we should

17:12 be here at the same time.

17:13 At this time, I get it.

17:14 I get it.

17:15 So are you going to pass by to do something there?

17:19 We will try our best to pass by.

17:21 But as you know, we have a full schedule.

17:23 All right.

17:24 I'm grateful to you for passing by.

17:27 Like I said, try and come by most of the things so we can do this.

17:31 Veronica Chatelain, a senior program officer with the Open Society Foundation.

17:37 Ibrahim Akan, a special advisor with the European Foundation.

17:42 Very, very solid people doing so well for the continent.

17:45 Our prayers are with them.

17:46 [MUSIC PLAYING]

17:49 you

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