On this episode of the Greg Bedard Patriots Podcast w/ Nick Cattles, both Greg and Nick express their reactions to DeAndre Hopkins' decision to sign with the Tennessee Titans instead of the New England Patriots. They delve into the repercussions of this decision, Bill Belichick's choice not to offer a higher bid for Hopkins, among other things. The duo also comment on the recent visit of Free Agent Running Back Leonard Fournette to the Patriots.
0:00 Intro
0:50 Leonard Fournette works out with Patriots
6:25 Why DeAndre Hopkins picked Titans over Patriots
10:00 Cattles SOUNDS OFF on DHop situation
20:51 What is driving Cattles crazy?
26:05 Greg's story on Bill Belichick's team building
33:00 Bedard: Might be time for some changes if things go bad
43:55 BSJ Member Question: Greg does not HATE Belichick
Check Greg's Coverage out over at www.bostonsportsjournal.com, for 39.99 on BSJ's annual plan. Not only do you get top-notch analysis of all the Boston pro sports, but if you're a Patriots junkie — and if you're listening to this podcast, you are — then a membership at BSJ gives you access to a ton of video analysis Bedard does on the coaches film, and direct access to him in weekly chats.
This episode of the Greg Bedard Patriots Podcast w/ Nick Cattles Podcast is brought to you by:
FanDuel Sportsbook, the exclusive wagering partner of the CLNS Media Network! Visit https://FanDuel.com/BOSTON to get up to TWO HUNDRED DOLLARS in bonus bets! Take your first swing at betting MLB on FanDuel and get TEN TIMES your first bet amount in bonus bets - up to TWO HUNDRED DOLLARS – win or lose. 21+ and present in MA. First online real money wager only. $10 Deposit req. Refund issued as non-withdrawable bonus bets that expire in 14 days. Restrictions apply. See terms at fanduel.com/sportsbook. Hope is here. GamblingHelpLineMA.org or call (800)-327-5050 for 24/7 support. Play it smart from the start! GameSenseMA.com or call 1-800-GAM-1234.
AG1! If a comprehensive solution is what you need from your supplement routine, then try AG1 and get a FREE 1-year supply of Vitamin D AND 5 free AG1 Travel Packs with your first purchase. Go to https://drinkAG1.com/BEDARD. Check it out!
0:00 Intro
0:50 Leonard Fournette works out with Patriots
6:25 Why DeAndre Hopkins picked Titans over Patriots
10:00 Cattles SOUNDS OFF on DHop situation
20:51 What is driving Cattles crazy?
26:05 Greg's story on Bill Belichick's team building
33:00 Bedard: Might be time for some changes if things go bad
43:55 BSJ Member Question: Greg does not HATE Belichick
Check Greg's Coverage out over at www.bostonsportsjournal.com, for 39.99 on BSJ's annual plan. Not only do you get top-notch analysis of all the Boston pro sports, but if you're a Patriots junkie — and if you're listening to this podcast, you are — then a membership at BSJ gives you access to a ton of video analysis Bedard does on the coaches film, and direct access to him in weekly chats.
This episode of the Greg Bedard Patriots Podcast w/ Nick Cattles Podcast is brought to you by:
FanDuel Sportsbook, the exclusive wagering partner of the CLNS Media Network! Visit https://FanDuel.com/BOSTON to get up to TWO HUNDRED DOLLARS in bonus bets! Take your first swing at betting MLB on FanDuel and get TEN TIMES your first bet amount in bonus bets - up to TWO HUNDRED DOLLARS – win or lose. 21+ and present in MA. First online real money wager only. $10 Deposit req. Refund issued as non-withdrawable bonus bets that expire in 14 days. Restrictions apply. See terms at fanduel.com/sportsbook. Hope is here. GamblingHelpLineMA.org or call (800)-327-5050 for 24/7 support. Play it smart from the start! GameSenseMA.com or call 1-800-GAM-1234.
AG1! If a comprehensive solution is what you need from your supplement routine, then try AG1 and get a FREE 1-year supply of Vitamin D AND 5 free AG1 Travel Packs with your first purchase. Go to https://drinkAG1.com/BEDARD. Check it out!
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SportsTranscript
00:00 This is the Greg Bedard Patriots podcast with Nick Cavill.
00:04 - And I got a lot of stuff to do today, Greg.
00:06 I just want to let you know that I have a large pod
00:09 to pack in my driveway,
00:11 but we have to talk about this DeAndre Hopkins BS,
00:15 which we'll get into in just a minute.
00:16 But I do want to remind people before we get to that,
00:19 that this episode is brought to you by our friends
00:21 at FanDuel, the exclusive wagering partner
00:23 of the CLNS Media Network.
00:25 Sign up now at fanduel.com/boston,
00:28 where your first MLB bet gets you 10 times
00:30 your first bet amount and bonus bets up to $200.
00:34 And also, Athletic Greens, a special blend
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00:43 Now, I've been waiting, anticipating,
00:46 frothing at the mouth to talk about DeAndre Hopkins,
00:49 but before we get to DHOP,
00:51 and the decision that was made by Bill Belichick,
00:53 because don't get it twisted,
00:54 it was absolutely a decision made by Bill Belichick.
00:58 We got to talk about somebody else,
01:00 because we have some news this morning.
01:01 Tom Palacero of the NFL Network, Greg,
01:03 says that our friend, old buddy, Leonard Fournette,
01:06 who once upon a time tried out for the Patriots,
01:09 worked out for the Patriots,
01:11 never signed, obviously, with the Patriots,
01:12 but playoff Lenny, Lombardi Lenny,
01:15 was back in the building today,
01:17 trying out, working out your thoughts on that story.
01:20 - Yeah, I think this is right in line
01:23 with what I thought they would do.
01:27 You know, a lot of people are talking about Dalvin Cook,
01:29 and especially after Hopkins,
01:31 maybe his money can go to Dalvin Cook,
01:33 and as we've talked about here on the podcast, Nick,
01:36 I just think that's been a pipe dream.
01:39 It's just, it doesn't align with what the Patriots do.
01:44 Now, I'm not saying that that's right or wrong,
01:47 it's just what they do.
01:48 You know, in terms of Dalvin Cook,
01:50 like DeAndre Hopkins, is a guy who is looking to get paid.
01:54 Like, he is not gonna come here for, you know,
01:58 $2 million plus incentives.
02:00 That's just not who he is,
02:02 that's not where he is in his career,
02:05 and as we've heard the conversation this week
02:08 about running backs being devalued,
02:11 you know, these guys have to grab every last dollar
02:14 that they can while they can.
02:16 And so, you know, while I think Dalvin Cook
02:19 makes a ton of sense football-wise for this offense,
02:23 and could give them another avenue to move the ball,
02:27 and certainly would be a, you know, an additional,
02:31 or maybe one of the only sort of, you know,
02:33 blue chip-ish talents on the offensive side of the ball,
02:37 you know, with Vermandre Stevenson being the starter
02:41 and making less than a million dollars a year,
02:43 and the Patriots can't do anything about that,
02:46 you know, Dalvin Cook is looking somewhere to make,
02:48 you know, upwards of like $9 million a year.
02:51 They can't bring in Dalvin Cook to be the backup
02:55 at $7 million plus incentives,
02:58 and it just, it doesn't work
03:00 from Bill Belichick's perspective,
03:02 and I tend to agree with that.
03:04 So I've always thought that the Patriots, at some point,
03:09 considering that it was James Robinson who didn't work out,
03:12 he, you know, once they made the decision on Damian Harris,
03:16 you thought it was logical
03:18 that they would get a veteran running back,
03:20 or at least an experienced running back,
03:22 at lower cost, to hopefully take over for Damian Harris.
03:27 They had James Robinson in during the off-season.
03:29 It didn't work out.
03:30 They released him.
03:31 There is now an opening in that spot,
03:34 at least to take a look at through the end of training camp,
03:37 you know, before 53-man cutdown.
03:39 Maybe by that time, Kevin Harris pops,
03:41 and he's the backup,
03:43 but they always go in with a veteran backup,
03:46 and so it was always more likely, not Dalvin Cook,
03:49 but it was more likely that they would go
03:51 Leonard Fournette, Kareem Hunt, McKissick is out there,
03:56 Rex Burkhead is out there.
03:59 It was always more likely that the Patriots
04:01 would sign somebody like that
04:03 for a couple million dollars plus incentives,
04:05 like, you know, should Ra'mondre Stevenson get hurt
04:07 or something like that,
04:08 and suddenly this guy becomes the bulk running back,
04:11 there's a way for them to get compensated for that.
04:13 So, you know, considering they already kicked the tires
04:18 on Leonard Fournette about a year ago, I think it was,
04:20 or two years ago,
04:21 there's obviously, the Patriots obviously like Fournette
04:26 as a player.
04:28 I think the Patriots were used sort of as a stalking horse
04:31 last time to get the Bucs to re-up and up their offer,
04:34 which they did, he went back to the Bucs.
04:35 Now the Bucs have no interest,
04:37 they're in a different place, they're rebuilding.
04:40 So, you know, I think the chances are probably pretty good
04:44 that Fournette is here, and if it's not Fournette,
04:46 I'm sure Kareem Hunt's gonna be the next guy in.
04:49 And whoever takes the offer from the Patriots,
04:51 I assume they're going to be the veteran backup
04:54 heading into training camp.
04:56 - Yeah, it makes a ton of sense.
04:56 Tymon Montgomery is not going to be
04:58 that backup running back.
05:00 We know if he's on this team,
05:01 which likely he's on this team,
05:03 it's going to be in that receiving role,
05:05 third down back role that he had going into last season.
05:09 So yeah, the Patriots needed to add a vet running back.
05:12 So it makes all the sense in the world.
05:13 As you mentioned, they've already looked at this guy
05:15 a year ago, two years ago, so you know they have interest,
05:18 they like his skillset,
05:19 they believe he can bring something to the table.
05:22 And I've mentioned this the past few pods,
05:24 I love Ramondre Stevenson,
05:26 and I find it a joke that the Madden rating system
05:29 doesn't have Stevenson as a top 20 running back in the league
05:33 that's hilarious to me.
05:34 But, put that aside,
05:37 the question that I do have about Stevenson
05:39 is whether or not he can be the bell cow for 17 games.
05:42 Last year, he ran out of gas with a few games left.
05:45 So if this means you give somebody else like Lenny,
05:49 you know, five to eight carries a game
05:51 to try to conserve Ramondre for later in the season
05:54 so he can contain, you know,
05:57 that explosiveness within through 17 games,
05:59 then it makes all the sense in the world.
06:01 And I'm with you, I would not be surprised
06:04 if the Patriots bring in Fournette.
06:06 And if it's not Fournette,
06:06 it's going to be another veteran back to help the mix out
06:09 because I don't think you can walk in
06:11 just believing Pierre Strong or Harris
06:13 is going to be that next guy up.
06:14 They've got to prove it and let them compete in camp.
06:17 And if they beat the tookest of Fournette or somebody else,
06:21 then that's great news for the Patriots
06:22 because they now have a young running back too.
06:25 All right, let's jump to the story.
06:26 Obviously, as I mentioned, on Sunday, this happened.
06:29 DeAndre Hopkins, shout out to Doug Kide
06:32 who broke this news.
06:33 He beat Adam Schefter.
06:35 He beat Ian Rappaport.
06:37 He beat pretty much everybody.
06:38 So shout out to the local reporter getting this news.
06:41 But DeAndre Hopkins is going to be a Tennessee Titan.
06:45 It's a two-year deal.
06:46 26 million is looking like the base.
06:49 There's incentives that can get that up to 15, 16 million.
06:52 Greg, first question for you on this is,
06:54 where did this go wrong?
06:55 - Well, I just think it went wrong where the Patriots
07:01 and Bill Belichick specifically,
07:03 have a certain value on players.
07:07 And they obviously didn't give DeAndre Hopkins
07:12 what he thought he was worth.
07:15 And the Titans had the better offer at the end of the day.
07:18 I mean, when we talked about all this,
07:21 from covering DeAndre Hopkins over his career,
07:27 he's a different cat.
07:28 This is not a guy, I don't care what he said on any podcast
07:31 about what he was looking for, like stability
07:33 and a hardworking quarterback and all that bull crap.
07:37 Like that's just not who he is.
07:39 I mean, he was going to go with the best offer
07:43 at the end of the day.
07:44 And the chances of that being the Patriots
07:47 and specifically Bill Belichick
07:48 for the offensive side of the ball, were not good.
07:52 The only hope in my mind that the Patriots
07:58 would have been the top bidder for DeAndre Hopkins
08:01 was if Robert Kraft stepped in and said,
08:04 "We need to do this for the offense,
08:07 "offer him, match this or go over,
08:10 "just give him what he wants because we need this."
08:12 And that evidently didn't happen.
08:15 And so here are the Patriots
08:17 with a very narrow path to victory on offense.
08:22 I mean, do they have enough players?
08:24 Yes.
08:25 But everything has to go right.
08:29 The tackles, they have to work out.
08:32 The wide receivers all have to stay healthy
08:34 and play well.
08:35 The tight ends have to stay healthy and play well.
08:38 Stevenson has to stay healthy and play well
08:41 and not run out of gas.
08:42 Mack Jones has to play really well
08:45 in the first year with Billy O'Brien.
08:47 I mean, do I think a lot of things have changed
08:51 in terms of how I see them as a team this year?
08:55 No, and I don't think they would have changed a whole lot
08:57 if Hopkins was here.
08:59 Maybe I would have been a game more optimistic, maybe.
09:03 But to me, it was a missed opportunity for the Patriots
09:08 to give themselves more of a margin for error on offense.
09:12 And I think it was a mistake.
09:14 I think they should have done it.
09:15 I don't think it was that much money.
09:17 I thought it was the market price.
09:18 It's not your money.
09:20 It's Robert Kraft's money.
09:22 He's got plenty of it.
09:24 It wouldn't have hurt the cap that much.
09:26 There's ways to mitigate that.
09:27 I just thought it was a layup for the Patriots
09:30 considering he's been in this offense before.
09:32 He's been with Bill O'Brien before.
09:33 He's been a three-time All-Pro in this offense.
09:36 You talk about wide receivers who have trouble coming here
09:39 and getting the system.
09:40 The offensive coordinator and the receiver know each other.
09:43 They know it works.
09:44 And so to me, this was a layup to improve the Patriots,
09:47 give themselves a better chance.
09:49 And I thought they fumbled the ball.
09:52 - I've been waiting for this.
09:53 I have been waiting for days to just drop the hammer.
09:56 And I'm not the guy who just drops the hammer
09:58 to drop the hammer, right?
09:59 A la some people in Boston on radio.
10:01 We know who they are.
10:02 Shout out to them because they've been very successful
10:05 at what they do.
10:05 So I've been waiting for this.
10:07 You can't tell me, you can't tell me in any world
10:11 that this is not a fail by Bill Belichick.
10:13 It is 100% sure fire, no doubt about it,
10:18 a fail by Belichick.
10:19 Let's first look at the contract
10:21 because I've had some pushback on Twitter,
10:23 shocker by some Patriots fans
10:25 who are trying to justify this decision
10:27 by doing a lot of mental gymnastics.
10:29 So let's break this down.
10:30 First of all, let's look at the deal, Greg, okay?
10:32 The contract, this was an incredibly reasonable, fair deal.
10:36 This was market value.
10:39 If you look at average annual value
10:41 at the wide receiver position,
10:44 with this contract, D Hop is going to slot in
10:47 at 23rd in the NFL.
10:49 He's the 23rd highest paid receiver in the league.
10:52 You can't tell me that DeAndre Hopkins
10:55 is not good enough to be paid in the top 20,
10:57 let alone 25 at that position in the league.
11:00 Number 23, the Patriots, as we know,
11:04 are bottom of the league in cash spent.
11:05 We can sit there and play salary cap games all we want,
11:08 the numbers are the numbers.
11:09 I believe Andrew Callahan tweeted it out a few days ago.
11:11 You can check it out.
11:13 They're at the bottom of the league.
11:14 So here's some of the pushback that I'm seeing on Twitter,
11:18 and I'm sure has been said on the airwaves the last few days
11:20 because I'm yet to be in Boston.
11:21 I will be there shortly and I can't wait.
11:24 Oh, he's breaking down.
11:25 I got that.
11:26 He's breaking down, Nick.
11:27 He's old, he's washed.
11:30 Number one, six of the eight games
11:33 that Hopkins missed last year was due to suspension.
11:35 Now, maybe he gets suspended again,
11:37 but I would deem that unlikely
11:39 since he hasn't had that happen to him before.
11:41 So six of the eight games that he missed last year
11:43 was not due to injury, it was not due to him breaking down,
11:46 it was due to a suspension from the league.
11:49 Then you go back to 2021.
11:51 I think he missed seven games in 2021.
11:54 It was a hamstring issue for a few games.
11:56 He tried to play through it and then he tore his MCL.
11:59 I will give you 2021.
12:01 Yes, he had injuries in 2021,
12:03 like the vast majority of NFL players get
12:06 at some point in their career.
12:08 But this is a guy, I keep hearing about the practices,
12:10 which I have more ammo for as well,
12:12 but I keep hearing about how this guy doesn't practice.
12:14 He doesn't want to practice.
12:15 You know what he does though?
12:15 He plays on Sunday.
12:17 He plays in the first eight years of his career.
12:19 You know how many games this guy missed
12:21 in his first eight years in the league?
12:23 He missed two games, dos.
12:24 One, two, two games missed in his first eight years.
12:28 He played every week in his first eight years
12:31 and he did nothing but produce throughout those eight years.
12:36 Oh, but Nick, but Nick, he's washed.
12:39 He's not that same guy.
12:40 Okay, let's play a game.
12:42 Last year, 2022, a lot of people love them,
12:46 stuff, Jacoby Myers, and I enjoy Jacoby Myers.
12:48 I do, I think he's a good football player.
12:50 A lot of Patriots fans wanted Myers
12:52 to stay in New England, okay?
12:54 Let's compare the stats of DeHop and Myers
12:56 from just last year.
12:58 I remind you that Hopkins played nine games
13:00 while Myers played 14.
13:02 Did you know that Hopkins had only three less catches
13:04 than Myers did last year in five less games?
13:08 Hopkins had 717 yards.
13:10 Myers had 804 yards.
13:13 Myers had six touchdowns.
13:14 DeHop had three touchdowns.
13:16 So the guy who's breaking down was pretty much
13:20 exactly what Jacoby Myers was a year ago.
13:23 Somebody that Patriots fans love and praise
13:25 and wanted to give the bag to would have no issue
13:28 paying that guy 11, 12 million guaranteed.
13:30 But you're looking at DeHop and in five less games,
13:34 he gave you pretty much the same exact production
13:37 that Myers gave the Patriots.
13:39 And you're telling me this guy is washed.
13:41 He might end up being washed,
13:44 but there's zero evidence at this point in time
13:46 on July 19th, 2023, 1033 Pacific time
13:49 that this dude is washed.
13:51 Zero evidence of that.
13:53 And if you wanna go back and forth and fight about the deal,
13:57 Greg and I talk about this all the time,
13:59 the comps, the market value.
14:00 It takes one team, that's all it takes.
14:02 I saw some people say, yeah, but Nick,
14:04 31 other teams didn't wanna pay Hopkins that contract.
14:07 Well, number one,
14:08 31 other teams are not in the situation the Patriots are in.
14:12 How many teams across the NFL have a legitimate,
14:15 bona fide number one wide receiver?
14:16 I'll get to that in a minute because there's many.
14:19 But let's just look at Odell Beckham Jr.
14:20 Let's just play the game, Greg.
14:22 Odell Beckham Jr. got 15 million guaranteed from the Ravens.
14:26 That's a guy who has 67 catches combined in 2020 and 2021.
14:31 OBJ had three more catches the last two years
14:37 he's played combined than D-Hop had last year.
14:40 Oh, and he missed last year OBJ with a torn ACL.
14:44 And that dude got 15 million guaranteed.
14:47 You can't tell me in any kind of way with any angle,
14:50 that this D-Hop deal was out of control and it was unfair.
14:54 This was a fair deal.
14:55 It comes down to this,
14:57 Bill Belichick didn't want to pay it.
15:00 He cheaped out and let's just call it like it is.
15:03 Let's embrace that everybody.
15:05 It's the Belichick system,
15:06 which we'll get into in a minute.
15:08 But you can't sit here and tell me
15:09 that the contract that Hopkins signed was unfair
15:12 based on his history, based on his recent productivity
15:15 and based on the comparison of OBJ
15:17 who just got more money guaranteed than this guy did.
15:19 And OBJ has played a lot less than he's played
15:23 over the last couple of years.
15:25 The deal is fair.
15:27 And for people telling me he doesn't want to practice,
15:29 you know what's funny, Greg?
15:31 People arguing about D-Hop.
15:33 He's older, doesn't practice a ton.
15:37 It's funny how the guy from the outside
15:40 who has a high ceiling and is considered
15:42 one of the best receivers in football the last decade.
15:45 It's funny how people will disparage him
15:47 and take shots at him for not practicing,
15:49 not being healthy all the time.
15:51 But yet it's fine.
15:53 It's fine when the Patriots are giving money
15:56 to the Nelson Aguilores of the world.
15:57 They're giving money to Devante Parker.
15:59 They're giving money to everybody else.
16:00 Are you telling me that any receiver on this roster
16:03 right now is more dependable than DeAndre Hopkins?
16:07 Do you think Juju is more dependable than Hopkins?
16:09 Devante Parker more dependable?
16:11 Tyquan Thornton more dependable?
16:12 Kendrick Bourne more dependable?
16:14 Are you telling me any of those guys
16:16 are more dependable than Hopkins?
16:18 Don't come to me with this noise
16:19 about how he's not dependable, he won't practice,
16:23 he's washed, blah-biddy, blah-biddy, blah.
16:25 Fact, DeAndre Hopkins, if he signed with the Patriots,
16:28 would be the best receiver on this football team day one.
16:31 Fact.
16:32 Fact.
16:33 Admit it.
16:36 Admit it.
16:37 It's okay if you admit things.
16:40 It's fine.
16:41 You'll survive it.
16:42 You can actually disagree with Bill Belichick
16:44 from time to time.
16:44 It's okay.
16:45 You won't be struck by lightning.
16:48 You'll wake up tomorrow morning, everything will be fine.
16:50 I have a lot more, but any reaction to what I just said?
16:54 - Yeah, the only thing, you know,
16:58 before we take a break
17:00 and then talk more about big picture stuff.
17:02 - I don't wanna take breaks.
17:03 (laughing)
17:06 - Oh, Nicky's in rare form today, I love it.
17:09 So I was just gonna say, like, you know,
17:12 the thing that stood out to me is like, you know,
17:15 if the Patriots just would have,
17:18 if they just would have chosen DeAndre Hopkins
17:22 and just got rid of Devontae Parker,
17:24 like what, why has DeAndre,
17:27 why has Devontae Parker earned anything around here?
17:30 Why has he earned any guaranteed money?
17:32 He's had one healthy season,
17:34 one really good season in his career.
17:37 He can't stay on, the only thing consistent
17:38 about his career is he can't stay on the field,
17:40 which, you know, is ironic considering the criticisms
17:44 about DeAndre Hopkins and his practice habits,
17:46 even though the dude is just a gamer
17:48 and he's out there all the time.
17:49 And I mean, his numbers last year,
17:51 I mean, like you said, you know, in nine games,
17:55 64 catches in that crap bag of an offense
18:00 with now Tyler Murray.
18:01 I mean, that's like an all pro season.
18:04 That should be celebrated.
18:05 But, you know, just all you had to do was,
18:08 if you're worried about the money,
18:10 which you shouldn't be because it's not yours,
18:11 it's Robert Kraft's money and he's got plenty of it.
18:14 Like if the Patriots just would have released
18:17 Devontae Parker or traded him for a six round pick,
18:20 seventh round pick,
18:21 they immediately would have recouped his $6 million
18:24 and put that to DeAndre Hopkins.
18:26 So Hopkins really would have cost about $9 million,
18:30 you know, additional to what they were doing.
18:32 And DeAndre Hopkins is a way better receiver
18:35 than Devontae Parker.
18:37 He demands much more respect.
18:40 He is much more consistent.
18:42 He has much more potential.
18:44 And so it just, that kind of stuff just puzzles me, Nick,
18:49 about this whole discussion about this, you know,
18:52 but we know if the Patriots would have won the services
18:55 for DeAndre Hopkins,
18:56 Patriots fans would have been going nuts and about,
18:58 you know, and defending him to the tilt
19:01 and about how, you know, he's not old and, you know,
19:04 he just conserves himself.
19:06 He doesn't practice because he wants to conserve himself
19:08 and he's really good in the games.
19:09 And you're absolutely right.
19:10 The bottom line is this,
19:12 DeAndre Hopkins would be the best receiver on this team.
19:15 You put DeAndre Hopkins with a healthy Juju Smith-Schuster
19:19 with these two tight ends,
19:20 and plus you mix in Kendrick Bourne and Tyquan Thornton
19:25 and maybe a little bit of Marcus Jones.
19:27 You know, now you're talking about an offense
19:30 that has some potential,
19:32 that there's a fear factor involved that you're like,
19:35 all right, you know, these guys can move the ball.
19:37 These guys can be pretty good.
19:39 And now they're just left with the same old, same old,
19:42 which, you know, as we'll talk about after the break,
19:44 is par for the course around here.
19:47 - Yeah, and I do want to talk about Mack Jones
19:50 and what this does to him
19:51 and some of the things that has bugged me
19:54 about the idea of not signing Hopkins
19:58 in relation to the quarterback.
19:59 I'll get to that in a minute.
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20:48 - All right, before we get to the Belichick side of this,
20:53 because Greg, I'll tell you,
20:54 I read your article from a couple of days ago.
20:56 I loved it.
20:57 I was talking to my buddy, Jim Lowth,
20:58 the other day on the phone.
21:00 And I was telling Jim, like, you got to read this.
21:03 Greg knocked it out of the park.
21:04 I thought it was great work.
21:05 We'll get to that in a minute.
21:07 But I just want to emphasize something here.
21:09 And I think this is part of a bigger conversation
21:12 you and I will have about this roster.
21:14 But another thing that drives me flipping nuts
21:17 about just not wanting to sign DeAndre Hopkins,
21:21 when you look around the NFL,
21:24 look at what every other team does with a young quarterback.
21:28 When you have a young quarterback on his rookie deal,
21:32 that gives you a bunch of leeway and wiggle room
21:37 to pay for guys on the offensive side
21:42 to make that quarterback better, quicker.
21:46 And yeah, the Patriots signed John U. Smith
21:49 and Hunter Henry a couple of years ago, as we know.
21:53 That was before Mack,
21:54 but they put the money into the tight end position.
21:57 It's because they failed to draft guys.
21:59 Devin Asiasi flamed out.
22:02 Dalton Keene, did he even touch the field
22:04 in the regular season?
22:05 I don't even remember if he played a snap
22:07 in his Patriots career in the regular season
22:10 or at any point in a season, preseason.
22:12 Look at what every other team has done, okay?
22:17 Quarterback on a rookie deal.
22:18 And you decided not to supply Mack Jones
22:21 with a legitimate wide receiver one.
22:23 That's the argument.
22:24 The argument is not if they added good players around Mack.
22:27 The argument is, did you give Mack that bona fide stud
22:31 at a position that he can lean on?
22:33 Let's just go through it quickly.
22:34 Joe Burrow, Jamar Chase, Patrick Mahomes, Tyreek Hill.
22:38 To a tongue of Ayala, all of a sudden started to be
22:41 a star quote unquote to some people last year.
22:43 I wonder why that was.
22:44 Maybe because they added Tyreek Hill
22:46 and drafted Jalen Waddell.
22:47 How about Josh Allen?
22:48 He wasn't Josh Allen until Stefan Diggs got to town.
22:51 A guy like Brock Purdy, Mr. Irrelevant in San Francisco
22:55 this last year, helped get them
22:57 to the NFC Championship game
22:59 because he had Iuke, Debo Samuel, Run CMC, and George Kittle.
23:04 Upper echelon talent.
23:06 Jalen Hurts was a guy who the Eagles
23:09 actually wanted to get rid of
23:11 and they wanted to bring Russell Wilson in.
23:13 Instead, they add A.J. Brown,
23:15 and all of a sudden, along with Devante Smith,
23:17 Jalen Hurts looks like an absolute beast last year.
23:20 Dak Prescott, what did Dallas do?
23:22 They went out, they got C.D. Lamb.
23:24 Every, Justin Herbert, go through all the young quarterbacks
23:28 and every single one of them gets a bona fide,
23:32 legitimate, number one wide receiver.
23:36 Not a guy with ifs.
23:39 If he stays healthy, if he does this, if he...
23:42 They go out and they get a dude.
23:45 And the Patriots have not done that for Mac Jones.
23:48 They drafted a guy, Greg, you and I have talked about this.
23:51 We don't think Mac's gonna be a top eight
23:52 to 10 quarterback in the league.
23:54 We think he's right around the middle of the pack.
23:57 12, 13, 14, whatever you wanna say.
23:59 Doesn't matter if he's the 11th quarterback
24:00 or the 15th quarterback.
24:02 What are we doing here?
24:03 He's somewhere in that range.
24:04 When you draft a guy like that,
24:08 kinda like Kirk Cousins, who, by the way, who has who?
24:11 Oh, Justin Jefferson.
24:12 And then they just drafted Addison in the last draft here.
24:15 When you draft a guy like Mac,
24:18 who is not somebody who's going to say,
24:21 "Jump on my back, fellas,
24:23 and I'm gonna rip the football
24:24 for 45 touchdowns this year."
24:26 You drafted a guy who needs good to very good talent
24:30 around him to get the most out of him,
24:32 including the offensive line.
24:34 And what you've done is you've surrounded him
24:37 with a bunch of good pieces who are not dependable,
24:42 who to a man have proven to be completely unhealthy,
24:45 and you've given him two offensive tackles.
24:48 One, hopefully, has walked away from the dinner table
24:51 and has lost some weight at left tackle
24:53 before we get to our training camp here in a week.
24:56 And then you went out and brought in
24:57 a mid-30s right tackle in Riley Reif,
25:01 who actually, yes, he might be washed.
25:04 The people that are worried
25:05 about DeAndre Hopkins being washed,
25:07 I hope you're really worried about Riley Reif being washed.
25:11 So you got a left tackle who's had one good year
25:14 in his career, one good year.
25:16 For all intents and purposes,
25:18 Trent Brown's had one good year.
25:20 You've got a mid-30s right tackle.
25:22 You've got Calvin Anderson,
25:23 who Greg said a couple of weeks ago
25:25 he's watched films, been a turnstile.
25:28 And you've got the roll call of receivers, none of them.
25:33 None of them, unless you're drinking the Belichick Kool-Aid,
25:38 none of them do you feel confident or optimistic
25:41 about walking into this season after the recent history
25:44 and even the far-reaching history.
25:46 It is a failure to recognize
25:49 what kind of quarterback you have
25:51 and how to get the most out of that guy.
25:54 And that's troubling to me.
25:56 - I would disagree if I could, Nick.
26:03 - Just drives me nuts.
26:06 All right, let's get to the Belichick stuff.
26:07 I know you've, again, you've done some great work,
26:10 bostonsportsjournal.com.
26:11 You can check it out at BSJ.
26:13 Greg wrote a long column.
26:16 According to my internet,
26:17 it told me it was a nine-minute read.
26:19 It's a little bit longer than usual.
26:20 Greg had a lot of words to share.
26:22 And it's about Belichick and how he builds his roster
26:26 and how he sees things.
26:27 So Greg, what's it say about Belichick
26:30 that he decided not to sign DeAndre Hopkins?
26:33 - Yeah, first of all, as evidenced by the column,
26:38 this has been on my mind for a while.
26:40 I was waiting to write it.
26:43 I was basically waiting until,
26:45 see what they would, with DeAndre Hopkins.
26:47 If they got DeAndre Hopkins,
26:49 then it would have changed my thinking.
26:52 But this has been percolating for a while.
26:55 And look, I just want to make this clear.
26:59 This column questioning Bill Belichick's
27:03 roster-building methods,
27:04 specifically shortchanging the offense,
27:06 like always, every year,
27:08 it was not about DeAndre, not getting DeAndre Hopkins.
27:11 That's not what it was about.
27:13 It was just, that was sort of the final straw.
27:15 I mean, as we've talked about in this whole off-season,
27:19 I mean, when you talked about team needs on this team,
27:24 cornerback was certainly up there.
27:26 So Christian Gonzalez, the first-round pick,
27:28 I don't have a problem with that.
27:30 But we also talked about,
27:31 they don't have any offensive tackles.
27:34 They have nothing in the pipeline
27:36 in offensive tackle going forward.
27:39 And also tight end.
27:40 They don't have any tight ends signed beyond this season.
27:43 And wide receiver was the same way
27:48 until they re-upped Devontae Parker.
27:51 Kendrick Bourne is a free agent.
27:55 Devontae Parker was going to be a free agent.
27:58 So there was just a bunch of things,
28:03 and then Hopkins was sort of the final straw.
28:06 And it's basically, my criticism is just like,
28:11 Bill doesn't care about offense.
28:14 He just, he doesn't invest in offense at all.
28:17 He never signs big money players from the outside.
28:22 When they had an opening after Rob Gronkowski,
28:29 quote unquote, "retired,"
28:31 did they go out and get the best free agent on the market?
28:34 No, they middled around a tight end for like two years
28:36 with like Ryan Izzo and other guys,
28:39 before the keen Aussie stuff.
28:41 When Julian Edelman was breaking down,
28:45 did they have anything ready?
28:46 Did they invest in that?
28:48 No, they've never invested it outside receiver.
28:51 And, but compare that to what they do on defense.
28:57 With defense, they always go out and get what they need.
29:02 Like, and I'm not talking about,
29:03 'cause of course I'll hear from Patriots fans
29:05 will be like, "What about Antonio Brown?"
29:07 Like signing a guy two days before the start of the season
29:11 is not addressing the offense.
29:14 It's symptomatic of the problem.
29:16 That you spent all off season jerking around on offense
29:21 with crappy receivers.
29:23 I remember that off season.
29:24 That was when, I think they were in Detroit
29:25 and I'm looking at these guys and it's just like,
29:28 all these horrible receivers,
29:30 all these horrible tight ends.
29:32 Like this is what they're surrounding Tom with
29:34 going into his final season.
29:36 And it just became so apparent by the end
29:38 that Antonio Brown,
29:40 because he got himself fired in Oakland, in Vegas,
29:44 suddenly became available.
29:46 So they pounced on him at the last second for $10 million,
29:49 did no background on him.
29:51 Like you're trying to tell me that's indicative
29:54 Bill Belichick investing in the offense?
29:55 That's a joke.
29:57 You know, it's what he always does.
29:58 He always throws it half ass at the end with offense.
30:02 Where he never does that on defense.
30:05 You know, he always shops blue label, top shelf,
30:09 first day of free agency.
30:11 Adelius Thomas, Darrell Rivas,
30:13 who is basically the DeAndre Hopkins of cornerbacks.
30:17 I mean, probably a little bit better,
30:19 but similar situation.
30:20 Guess what?
30:22 Rivas got what he was worth and they gave it to him
30:24 and they won a Superbowl.
30:26 When it comes to offense, same situation,
30:28 Bill doesn't do it, he cheaps out.
30:30 When they needed a cornerback,
30:33 when Malcolm Butler wouldn't take their contract,
30:35 did they cheap out, you know, and sign some middling guy?
30:39 No, they went out and get Stephon Gilmore,
30:42 top of the market, first day, first minute of free agency.
30:46 When they needed an edge rusher,
30:48 when their draft picks didn't work out,
30:51 did they middle along with Chase Winovich and these guys
30:54 and say like, all right, we just gotta make do with this?
30:57 No, they went out and they got Matthew Judon
30:59 in the first minute of free agency.
31:01 Like, he never does that on offense.
31:04 He had openings at tackle, tight end in the future,
31:09 wide receivers, and he just doesn't do anything about it.
31:13 And like, I understand that it worked
31:16 for the Patriots way back when, okay?
31:19 And when they had Tom Brady.
31:21 But it's a different time, it's a different salary cap league,
31:26 it's a different offensive-minded league,
31:29 it's just changed and Bill hasn't changed.
31:31 And the thing is, is like,
31:32 he's so brilliant coaching defense
31:35 that he can get away with less.
31:37 I mean, even look at this year's draft.
31:38 Yes, Gonzalez was a need pick.
31:40 But in the second and third round,
31:43 they could have drafted a tackle,
31:45 they could have drafted a tight end
31:47 to make sure that they were okay there,
31:49 gotten an explosive tight end like the Bills did.
31:54 They could have gotten a developmental tackle
31:56 like the Jets did, and they didn't do that.
31:59 Instead, he picks a depth,
32:03 he selects depth guys at defensive end and safety,
32:08 where they already have guys.
32:09 And look, I think Mapu's gonna be a star, so great for them.
32:13 But like, you couldn't have sprinkled in
32:14 one pick for the offense there to say,
32:17 all right, I'm gonna take care of the offense?
32:18 I mean, it's a joke.
32:20 And like, I'm sorry, but if this doesn't work out,
32:24 if Bill's shortchanging Mack Jones and the offense again,
32:27 and this went back to Brady, it's not about Mack Jones,
32:29 and I don't subscribe to this thing
32:31 where he's trying to sabotage Mack Jones
32:33 or any of this stuff.
32:35 But if this works out again,
32:37 where the Patriots can't score enough points to win games
32:40 and fail to make the postseason, I'm sorry.
32:42 This is one of those final straws
32:44 that Robert Kraft looks at it and says,
32:46 I gave you chances, it's now five years post-Brady,
32:49 we haven't won a playoff game,
32:50 you still don't get it with the offense,
32:53 we're completely opposite than the rest of the NFL,
32:55 and it's not working, Bill.
32:57 And if he's not going to change,
32:58 which he's not going to change,
33:01 then I do think they need to consider changes,
33:06 and whether that's taking away pro personnel control
33:09 from Bill, or Bill being gone outright,
33:13 forcing him into retirement or whatever,
33:15 like, I'm sorry, this is the same old,
33:18 same old with the Patriots.
33:19 All the evidence that we have tells us
33:21 it's not going to work.
33:22 If it doesn't work, I think that Bill's feet
33:26 need to be held to the fire.
33:28 - I know Paul Perillo said on NBC Sports Boston
33:30 over the last 24, 36 hours,
33:32 that he thinks it would have to take a massive disaster
33:36 for Belichick to be gone.
33:37 Four wins, five wins this year.
33:39 I tweeted this out, @NCRADIO,
33:41 if you want to follow me, @NCRADIO,
33:43 all of you follow Greg already.
33:45 But if, you know, if this team wins, let's say, seven games,
33:51 and Belichick, something doesn't happen.
33:56 Somebody needs to take the keys away from Robert.
34:00 And I love RKK.
34:02 Dude's legitimately one of the best owners
34:04 in all of sports for the past few decades.
34:07 But at that point, it would tell me that he is unwilling
34:11 to put the bullet in the head of Bill Belichick,
34:15 figuratively speaking.
34:16 And my issue with that is, look, this season,
34:20 to me, Greg, is the ultimate Bill Belichick
34:25 versus everybody else.
34:27 We've said that before,
34:28 but that was when Tom Brady was in town, right?
34:30 Certain things he'd do,
34:31 well, this is Belichick versus everybody else.
34:33 And this is year four, post Brady.
34:38 You have been an average at best football team.
34:40 That's what you've been.
34:41 That's what your record has been.
34:43 That's the way you've coached.
34:44 That's the way you've played.
34:45 You've been average.
34:47 This year is Bill Belichick walking into the room,
34:50 dropping his stuff on the table and saying,
34:52 "I know more than everybody else."
34:53 This is the ultimate litmus test
34:56 in year four of roster building.
34:58 And he either has done it right, or he hasn't done it right.
35:01 And if he gets it right, trust me when I tell you,
35:03 because Greg and I have done this before,
35:05 we will be the first in line that say,
35:07 "Congratulations to Belichick.
35:08 "He proved us wrong.
35:10 "He proved everybody wrong."
35:11 This is the way that you can win football.
35:13 You can put money in special teams
35:15 when nobody cares about special teams.
35:17 You can spread the wealth around offensively
35:20 and not get a true stud on that side of the ball
35:22 and still be able to do well enough
35:24 because of scheme and coaching.
35:25 The offensive line wasn't great,
35:27 but again, coaching a few guys in the interior
35:30 really helped out.
35:31 They drafted Cole Strange.
35:33 They bucked the system by doing that
35:34 in the first round last year,
35:36 and it all worked out for them.
35:38 If that happens, then congratulations.
35:40 I'll be happy.
35:41 Greg, I think, will be happy,
35:42 even though he's the wet blanket,
35:44 because we'll be covering a football team
35:46 that's good and fun and winning.
35:48 That's what we all want.
35:50 And there's no doubt to me, don't get it twisted,
35:52 this defense, as queasy and questionable
35:54 as I see this offense,
35:55 is as excited I am about this defense.
35:58 I think this defense has upper echelon ability here.
36:01 I think this defense,
36:02 if they play to the tippity top of their potential,
36:04 they could end up being a top two or three defense
36:07 in the NFL.
36:08 Here's the thing, though.
36:09 Everybody will say, "Well, that's how they'll win."
36:14 And by the way this roster is constructed,
36:17 as Greg just kind of pointed out
36:18 to several different things,
36:19 the making of this roster, the building up to this point,
36:22 it's rather obvious that that's what Belichick believes.
36:24 Belichick believes that if we spread
36:25 the wealth offensively, we score just enough,
36:28 if we score 24 points a week or so,
36:30 and we have our defense, which is just unpenetrable,
36:34 if that's how we're gonna win.
36:36 We're gonna win with some good run game,
36:38 we're gonna have Mac in the system,
36:40 we're gonna have guys who know all that stuff.
36:43 And people will look at the rest of the league
36:45 and they'll say, "Well, San Francisco has done it
36:48 "with Jimmy Garoppolo and Brock Purdy."
36:50 And what I say to that is,
36:54 "But San Francisco doesn't do what Belichick is doing."
36:58 San Francisco pours a lot, a lot into the defense.
37:02 John Lynch, former defensive guy, as we all know, right?
37:05 He pours a lot into that side of the football.
37:07 They've got a bunch of studs, Fred Warner, Nick Bosa,
37:10 you know the names.
37:11 But what else does San Francisco do?
37:14 They also have Aiyuk, they also have Debo,
37:19 they also have George Kittle.
37:21 And when they feel like they don't have enough offensively--
37:22 - And Christian McCaffery.
37:24 - Yeah.
37:25 - They went out and got Christian McCaffery.
37:26 - When they feel like they don't have enough,
37:28 to that point, even with those guys, as Greg says,
37:32 they go out and what I thought was an overpay,
37:34 when you look at price and running backs and all of that,
37:36 they overpaid to bring McCaffery in
37:40 because they knew he was a stud when healthy
37:42 and he could singularly impact the game,
37:45 a la the names I mentioned earlier with young quarterbacks.
37:49 And they said, "Yeah, we've got Jimmy Garoppolo
37:51 "who can't stay healthy,
37:52 "he's an average quarterback at best.
37:54 "And we got Brock Purdy, Mr. Irrelevant,
37:56 "we've got an unknown in Trey Lantech quarterback,
37:58 "we drafted him high, but he hasn't been able
38:00 "to stay healthy, he's been useless to us."
38:02 So what we're gonna do is, what I mentioned earlier,
38:05 we're gonna surround the quarterback
38:09 who is average to maybe slightly above average,
38:12 13, 14, 15, ranked in the league,
38:16 but we're gonna surround that guy with weapons.
38:18 Belichick has not done that.
38:19 Belichick has approached defense
38:21 like the Niners approach defense
38:23 with their decision-making,
38:25 but he has not given them a top three tight end like Kittle,
38:29 a top three running back like McCaffery,
38:32 a top 10 wide receiver until last year in Debo.
38:35 A lot of people think IU could be a top 10 to 15 guy
38:37 this year.
38:38 Oh, and by the way,
38:40 he also gave them Trent Williams at left tackle,
38:43 a top two or three left tackle in the game.
38:46 That's the difference.
38:47 So if you wanna give me the 49ers comparison,
38:50 it's not even close.
38:52 Because what the Niners have done
38:53 is they have surrounded their quarterback
38:55 with really good players.
38:57 And Greg, one last point before we get to Athletic Greens
39:01 and the BSJ member question of the day.
39:03 One more pushback that I have,
39:05 'cause you just mentioned this,
39:07 about maybe taking the pro personnel decisions
39:09 away from Bill.
39:11 Somebody yesterday tweeted at me and said,
39:14 "Well, I don't know why people think that Belichick's
39:18 "gonna be gone anytime soon,
39:20 "because he's 19 wins away from Shula's record."
39:22 And I said, "Well, are we just gonna allow Belichick
39:29 "to mediocre his way to Don Shula's record?"
39:32 Is Robert Kraft okay saying,
39:35 "All right, he's 19 wins away,
39:37 "so three more years of seven wins,"
39:39 when Kraft is in his 80s?
39:41 And here's the bigger issue.
39:43 Belichick's not only the coach, Greg,
39:48 he's also the guy that's shopping for the groceries,
39:50 as his buddy Parcells once said.
39:52 And if you are okay with sticking by and standing by
39:57 Bill Belichick, the head coach,
39:58 so he can accomplish this Shula record,
40:01 you're most likely also standing by with him being the GM
40:04 and making these decisions that he's made
40:07 that has given us the past three years of average play,
40:10 and going off of if they're average again this year,
40:14 you're gonna give that guy two or three more years
40:17 when you've got a decision to make on Mac Jones
40:19 after this year, whether or not you're picking up
40:21 his 50-year option, you're going to put money
40:23 on Bill Belichick to build the offense the right way,
40:27 surrounding a brand new QB1.
40:29 And by the way, for people who just wanna get rid
40:31 of Mac Jones, I've got news for you.
40:32 It's very difficult to find a legitimate quarterback
40:35 in the league, very difficult.
40:37 You can't just find guys that can lift everybody up.
40:43 Those guys are top eight to 10 quarterbacks.
40:45 They don't become available, everybody.
40:47 So you're either drafting somebody
40:51 or you're bringing somebody in paying Kirk Cousins
40:53 $40 million.
40:54 It's not easy.
40:57 So what evidence do you have aside from striking gold
41:01 in the sixth round with Brady, what evidence do you have
41:05 that Belichick is going to be capable
41:08 of bringing that next QB in if it's not Mac,
41:13 and surrounding him and complimenting him the right way?
41:16 If you bring Belichick back, if you're Kraft,
41:19 to accomplish this record, which would be Fugazi,
41:21 because everybody would be like, oh yeah, he limped to it.
41:23 It's like when Strahan got his sack record
41:26 'cause Brett Favre fell down.
41:28 If you're gonna do that, then you're also giving the keys
41:32 to Belichick for the next five, six years
41:34 of your organization because he's making those decisions.
41:38 And I just, I don't think you can do that.
41:40 I don't think you can sacrifice the team's long-term
41:43 stability so Bill Belichick could be thrown
41:46 on a couple of guys' shoulders and do the princess wave
41:49 to the Gillette Stadium crowd
41:51 because he broke Shuler's record.
41:53 I just don't think that's gonna happen.
41:58 But hey, maybe I'm wrong.
41:59 Maybe Kraft's like, I love you, Bill, I love you.
42:02 We're gonna put a statue of you,
42:03 and we're gonna put that big, ridiculous,
42:06 they spent more money on the big screen
42:09 than they've spent on their wide receivers, right,
42:10 this off-season, probably?
42:12 But a lot of money on that acreage of video now.
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43:49 And we're back.
43:53 - And we're back.
43:54 - All right.
43:55 - Let's wrap this one up.
43:55 We've had a lot to say.
43:56 I've had a lot to say.
43:57 I've gone on a little bit.
43:59 I apologize for those who just love hearing
44:01 Greg Bidard's dulcet tones and his wonderful pipes,
44:05 but I had a lot to get off my chest
44:07 and I'm unemployed right now,
44:08 so I ran with the football today.
44:11 All right, before we bid you adieu,
44:14 Greg, BSJ member question of the day.
44:16 - Well, I was looking through the comments on my column,
44:22 which by the way, got read the hell out of.
44:26 And I just wanted to bring up,
44:30 there are people on my site, on BSJ, our site,
44:35 that man, they really don't like it
44:40 when I'm critical of Bill.
44:42 I just wanted to dismiss,
44:47 and I heard somebody call into Felger and Maz the other day
44:49 and say, "Yeah, all these guys have an ax to grind
44:52 "against Bill."
44:53 So somebody brought up that I hate Bill
44:56 because of Christian Barmore stuff,
44:58 which first of all, all I told you was,
45:02 and I can't believe people bring this up.
45:05 What I told, first of all, he slipped in the draft.
45:08 That is a fact, he slipped.
45:10 He was a first round talent taken in the second round.
45:13 I told you some of why.
45:16 There was some that I couldn't tell you
45:18 because the team that told me said,
45:19 "You can't reveal this because it would identify us
45:24 "to where we got it from."
45:25 It's called protecting a source.
45:27 I'm sorry, I'm gonna do it.
45:28 I don't care what you say.
45:29 You can say, "Oh, well, Greg doesn't have any information
45:32 "on that," whatever.
45:34 But I don't hate Bill.
45:37 I have a great deal of respect for Bill.
45:39 He has a great deal of respect for me.
45:42 He doesn't like me sometimes.
45:43 I don't like him sometimes.
45:45 This is what comes with covering an NFL team.
45:47 What's funny is I just got off the phone earlier today
45:51 with Zach Thomas,
45:52 soon to be Pro Football Hall of Famer, Zach Thomas.
45:56 I had sent him an email congratulating him
46:01 on making the Hall of Fame.
46:03 And I sort of talked about how,
46:05 I know sometimes we didn't see eye to eye,
46:07 but there was always respect there.
46:09 Basically, this is back in the early 2000s.
46:13 I was a little ahead of my time, but long story short,
46:16 I would see Zach in post-game press conferences
46:20 and he looked like he was out of it.
46:22 Concussions were an issue for him.
46:25 The way he played as an undersized middle linebacker
46:27 and tackling with his head.
46:28 And you could tell this is before CTE,
46:31 this is before concussion protocols and stuff like that.
46:34 And there'd be sometimes after games
46:36 where Zach's talking to us and I'm like,
46:38 "Dude, this guy makes no sense."
46:39 And he and I, I would ask him about concussions
46:43 and he would get mad at me
46:44 because he never wanted to come off the field.
46:46 But, so I'm just telling you the story as an example.
46:50 And Zach said to me today on the phone,
46:52 he's like, "I never took that stuff personally."
46:54 He's like, "I know you were just looking out for me
46:57 "and I appreciate that.
46:58 "And you were right to do that and thank you."
47:01 So I'm just saying this in terms of,
47:04 there's always give and take.
47:06 I don't know how these people at home sit there and say,
47:09 there's always an adversarial relationship.
47:11 That's not the way it works.
47:13 It's hot and cold.
47:14 But the bottom line is,
47:16 and some of the people that complain about me,
47:19 they think I take shots at Belichick.
47:22 I'm just stating facts.
47:23 Like if Bill Belichick was lights out,
47:26 I mean, look, you can say 25 and 26,
47:30 go back to the 2019 season when they were eight and O
47:33 and the finish to that season,
47:34 you can add to when they were
47:36 the weakest eight and O team ever,
47:38 including Tom Brady knew it.
47:39 Tom Brady knew that team was an eight and O
47:42 and was the quote unquote,
47:44 the most miserable eight and O quarterback in the game.
47:47 And it's just since the middle of 2019,
47:50 this Patriots team has been going downward.
47:52 That's just a fact.
47:54 And Bill is in charge of all things football,
47:57 strategies, coaches, decisions, draft,
47:59 free agency, all this stuff.
48:00 It's his fault.
48:02 I mean, he's on the line.
48:04 Whatever happens, good or bad, it's on him.
48:06 For years, it was okay that we praised him
48:08 and called him a genius.
48:09 Now that it's gone in the other direction,
48:11 it's not okay.
48:11 It's taking shots to point out factual stuff
48:15 in terms of what he believes and how he constructs his team.
48:18 Like, I just don't understand that, Nick.
48:20 And I just like, I guess I just sort of wanted
48:24 to talk it out a little bit and just like,
48:26 I think that I've always been,
48:28 and I've heard this from people.
48:29 They said like, you know, you've gotten really negative.
48:31 You've gotten really,
48:33 have you looked at what has happened to the team?
48:36 Like, they are a middling team at best
48:41 since the middle of the 2019 season.
48:44 Like, what do you want me to say about it?
48:46 Like, you know, the decision with Matt Patricia
48:50 and Joe Judge last year, people are just like,
48:52 well, you know, that shouldn't get him fired.
48:53 That was a mistake.
48:55 You know, Andy Reid did the same thing.
48:57 We pointed this out at the time.
48:59 Andy Reid took his offensive line coach, Juan Castillo,
49:03 and made him defensive coordinator.
49:05 It was a complete and utter disaster
49:09 to the point that Juan Castillo lost his job,
49:12 didn't work in the league for years,
49:14 and two years later, mostly because of that,
49:16 Andy Reid was out in Philly, who was a really good coach,
49:19 had a really good record, really successful,
49:21 you know, not the Super Bowl titles,
49:23 but, you know, a bunch of, you know,
49:25 NFC championship games.
49:27 Like, you know, I just think that I'm calling it
49:31 the way that I see it, like I've always done.
49:33 And it's not my fault that the Patriots have been mediocre
49:37 and they have, Bill has given us reason
49:39 to be critical of him and the team.
49:42 I would love to tell you how much of a genius he is
49:44 and how good the team is.
49:46 But, you know, I can't do that when the offense is terrible,
49:50 when the defense gets run off the field
49:52 by its own home field by Justin Fields
49:55 and the Chicago Bears who don't win another game
49:57 the whole year, that they can't stop any offenses
49:59 with good quarterbacks.
50:00 You know, I just think that I'm telling it
50:04 the way that it is.
50:05 I'm sorry that it's been, it feels negative.
50:07 Blame your football coach.
50:09 He's in charge of everything.
50:13 - This episode of the Gerber Dark Patriots podcast
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50:37 Hopefully that means a win
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50:53 Well, lots to get off the chest.
50:55 I think we have had some therapy today, some venting,
50:58 some objective look, some objective viewpoints
51:03 of this roster and football team.
51:05 And that's what we'll continue to do.
51:06 Look, we don't get, I don't get paid
51:10 to tell you what you want to hear.
51:13 I get paid to tell you what I think.
51:15 And hopefully, whether you agree or disagree
51:17 with what I say, you do know that homework goes into it,
51:21 that there's substance behind it
51:22 because ultimately you can walk away from a disagreement,
51:25 I think, respecting the other person,
51:27 if you believe that person's intentions were true
51:31 and there was work behind those intentions.
51:32 There are people, unfortunately, in Greg and I's business
51:35 that don't do the homework,
51:37 that don't have as much substance behind what they say.
51:40 And they say things because that's just how their nature is.
51:44 They're skeptical, they're pessimistic.
51:46 And yeah, some of those people also know
51:49 that what they're doing is working.
51:51 And a lot of people are listening or watching them.
51:54 And that's the world we live in.
51:55 But Greg and I, we, you know, for me, myself,
51:59 I just, I don't have any kind of vendetta
52:02 or any kind of, you know, bias towards anybody.
52:07 I want this team to win.
52:09 It's more fun to cover the team when they're winning,
52:11 not going through, oh, you know,
52:13 they had 12 guys on the field again
52:14 and they forgot to do this and do that.
52:17 That's not fun.
52:17 So anyway, I think most of the people
52:19 listening to this podcast, they know that.
52:21 Whether you hate listen or love listen,
52:24 you guys know that.
52:25 We'll be back.
52:26 We'll see if Letter to 4Net is a patriot,
52:27 what else happens here.
52:28 We got training camp starting next week.
52:30 So that should be a lot of fun.
52:32 We'll start to actually see these guys on the field again,
52:35 which will be nice.
52:36 But until then, be safe, be healthy,
52:39 be well, and we'll talk to you next time.
52:40 Greg Vidar, Patriot's Podcast with Nick Kapp.
52:43 (upbeat music)
52:45 (upbeat music)
52:48 (upbeat music)
52:50 (upbeat music)
52:53 (upbeat music)
52:56 (upbeat music)
52:58 (upbeat music)